Episode 24
Separating Our Value from Productivity, Looking Beyond Achievement and Creating in a Way That Respects our Feminine Essence with Belinda Marie
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Transcript
Welcome back to the Fully Nourished podcast, a place to explore where female physiology and feminine energy dance together to shape our life experience. I'm your host, Jessica Ash, functional nutritionist and integrative health coach and I'm inviting you to journey with me through both the scientific and spiritual facets of what it looks like to awaken our feminine radiance and become deeply and fully nourished despite living in a society that is increasingly desperate to erase our female set-apartness. You ready?
As a reminder, everything in this podcast is for education and inspiration only and is not intended as medical advice. Please talk to the appropriate professional when necessary. And please use common sense before making any changes to your diet and lifestyle.
Introducing: Belinda Marie
I am so excited to introduce you to today's guest, Belinda Marie. It's such an honor that she agreed to come on the podcast because as you'll learn in her interview, she's very intentional about the way that she shows up and shares her work and creates and so it's quite the honor that we were able to have her here with us today. And if you don't know who Belinda is, I'll share a little bit more about her and her own words. She is the writer and creator of Soul and Self, which is an online space for women who want to unwind from the striving pace of the world and embody and trust in a softer, feminine-centered way of healing, living and business. She seeks to give voice to the less tangible nature of feminine being supporting women who want to reconnect with their femininity, radiance, creativity and heart. In particular, she speaks to women who have been taught to unconsciously perceive themselves as less than for not being inspired by masculinized ideals of external productivity and linear achievement, instead, helping them to reclaim and feel safe in their feminine expression, organic pace and natural gifts.
Belinda's work and writing is so powerful and important to me personally, because she is one of the first people who gave voice to something that I was feeling that I couldn't quite put my finger on. I discovered her work a few years ago, I just randomly was scrolling Pinterest, and came across one of her blog posts. And I think that night, and the next day, I read through almost every single one of her writings. So much of what I was feeling already and couldn't quite put my finger on had finally made sense, she had given a voice to it and put words to it. And this happened at a time when Jessica Ash Wellness was exploding in growth. And from the outside people would say like, wow, you know, I, I would get DMS pretty much every day. It was like, how did you grow so fast? And what are your secrets? I was starting to feel a sense of misalignment. When I had begun Jessica Ash Wellness, I had so many exciting things to share, because I was talking about some health stuff, and you know, hormone and nutrition concepts that had never come to the space before. But after a couple of years, so many people were parroting and following in my footsteps, and talking about the same things. And I almost felt like the message was starting to get a little bit diluted. But also, it didn't spark joy or creativity in me anymore. I was creating on demand. I was kind of a content creation generator or a machine. And I felt like I was at a crossroads. Well, I didn't know it at the time. But I can look back and say yes, I was at a crossroads where on one side, so many people, you know, business coaches and marketing experts and anyone that had any advice for me would say, you know, you have found the secret sauce, just keep doing what you're doing, you have obviously found a niche that really works. And people resonate with it. And something inside of me just… it wasn't that I couldn't. It's just that I couldn't bring myself to work out of a place of misalignment.
And so the other part of the crossroads was a small whispering voice saying, “You don't have to do it this way. You can do things differently if you want to. And if you want to grow and you want to change, that's okay.” And so part of me, the part of me that was defined by this linear productivity and this external achievement, was saying why can't you just keep doing what you're doing? It's working. But I knew deep down there was something bigger for me waiting around the corner, but I didn't know what it was going to look like but I had to heed it and I had to follow it. But at the time I don't think I had the confidence to really do it. It took a lot of unlearning. and relearning and praying and trusting and surrendering, to be able to follow that small, gentle whisper that was contrary to what everyone else was saying, and what the practical advice would be, and to listen to my gut and listen to my heart. But I had to do it.
This is why Belinda's work was so important to me, because when I found it, it was exactly what I was searching for. It was what I needed to hear. And once I heard it, I said, I can do this. It gave me that little small boost of confidence that I needed to say it can be done another way, and it will be done another way, and learning to trust and honor my own biological rhythms. And the pace of my own life has definitely been one of the hardest things I've ever done, but also been the most glorious things I've ever done. It's been the most life changing thing I've ever done. And so I thank her and I thank her work, and I want to share it with you. So with that being said, let's dive into the interview.
Jessica: If you could just tell me a little bit more about you like where you come from, I know I am an avid reader of your blog. But I want to know a little bit more about your background, if you're comfortable sharing just what led you to being such a voice. Like I feel like you're just a soft and gentle voice. And it's so funny because I was taking a break from social media and I was pivoting my work so profoundly. And I knew there was something I was going in a direction, but I wasn't sure what direction I was going in. And so I was taking a step back from social media because I needed to. And I always kind of opt to go on Pinterest, and I just happened to come across your work so much. It just kept like showing up in my feed showing up in my feed. And every time I would click and read, I'd be like, Oh my gosh, it's leading me to this same place soul itself. So I here I am reading every single one of your articles. And I'm just like, oh my goodness, I cannot believe I've never come across you before. Your work is so profound.
Belinda: Thank you. And yes, I love Pinterest. I feel like it's this kind of separate world from the Instagram algorithm. Yes, I feel like a lot of people who are on Instagram a lot, you know how you kind of get like a group of people who have similar type of voices. And then you start seeing like the same sort of content. And then I feel like Pinterest is just this space where I don't know, it just you get like a free interaction with like new material. So yeah, I love being focused over there. And I'm not really on any other platform. So it's really nice when people stumble across me, in that gentler way. Yeah, so I started writing on Soul and Self about, I think it's like five or six years ago now. I was a teacher at the time primary school, I think you guys maybe call it elementary school. So sort of us five, age five to 12. And I love teaching, I really, really loved it. But I was just finding that it was just feeling a little bit misaligned. I think teaching has changed over the sort of decade, a decade or so that I was in it in Australia anyway. And it was very much that sense of fame teaching these children, there's a lot of these sort of academic benchmarks and this focus on just like pushing them into these levels of achievement. And my heart was very much about I guess, the softer skills. So the creativity and the emotional awareness, and the just the happiness and the well being and the fulfillment and the relationships, and the beauty and the spirituality. So all of those things that, you know, sometimes they're spoken about in education structures, but there's really that underlying sense of, yes, they're important, but only to the extent that they support these other benchmarks. And so I just Yeah, I was just feeling more and more misaligned. And I just got to the point where, you know, I don't like to be in a context when I'm like pushing against the grain, the river. And I don't like to be in those environments where I feel like I am not in a really positive interaction headspace around people that I'm working for. So I decided to just take a step back and instead of taking on a full time role the next year, I decided just to do some casual relief teachings. I could have been tired. And I thought you know, do some traveling and some writing. And yeah, so at that point, I've always loved writing and reports, you know, for the children at school, that was my thing I used to help everyone with theirs. And so I found myself in a content writing role for a company. And from there, I was like, I really enjoy doing this. And I really enjoy writing content for businesses. So I did a little bit of that on the side. And then I just started writing my own themes, so Soul and Self started off as a blog. And it was just me sort of expressing, I guess, like my frustration with the fact that life just didn't seem to be this linear, like from here to here. And, you know, it wasn't really encompassing of those things that were so important to me, and was important to what I hoped for, for the children that I was teaching. So yeah, it's, I could go on and on.
Jessica: No, that was so amazing. There's so many things that you said that I was like, oh, I need to write that down. But just your way of describing it as the softer skills and how they were only looked at as important if they were going to kind of produce this achievement that you were after, and kind of taking the importance of them away. And here you are, with these children day after day seeing how important these things are in their well being. And yet, you're having to like push them in this hustle, kind of even though it kind of pulled out your spirit, when you started to feel that sense of misalignment. Did you know like, I need to shift, I need to change directions? Was there any fear there? I think I'm just kind of asking that for the listeners. Because I think there's so many women right now who they are starting to feel that deep sense of misalignment, a lot of maybe their health issues are coming from that place, but they're so afraid to make a change. Because what does that mean? You know, what does that mean for the bigger picture?
Belinda: Yes, yes, definitely. I think that, in my circumstance, I kind of started, I started to move into that softer way of living while I was still in the education system. So I remember the last school I worked at, I would, I would always like go to this little cafe before school, and I would see it and I would ride and rave and you know, have a coffee and a little croissant or something. And I did that every morning. And the other teachers that sort of come in and get their takeaway coffee. And I kind of feel really bad. I'm like, Oh, my gosh, I must look really lazy. Think that's when I really started to think about how I don't necessarily, like obviously, context does matter. And there can be some environments that just really get you down. But I think for me, it was trying to bring in this energy that I aligned with, like in the context that I was already. And then as time went on, I kind of realized that, yeah, that was getting a little trickier. I think with my job with teaching, it's, it's really quite easy to do casual relief teaching. So there wasn't so much fear, because I knew that there was still that income support available for me, I could get you know, as much work as I needed. I had quite a few schools that I could work at. So I sort of had that. On the side, I also had some savings. So yeah, I did have that support. And in my work, you know, I do talk to a lot of my clients about that, who kind of want their businesses to work straight away. And they don't have that other support. And I think it does put a lot of pressure and fear. And I think that's really normal to feel pressure and fear if you're trying to jump into something different. And you're wanting it to like work or provide for you. But for me, it was kind of a very, I'm a very slow mover. Well, no, I'm not slow. If I want to do something, I'm quick. But I think in my life, my trajectory has been, especially over the last sort of, maybe five or six years has been a lot slower. And I kind of just tiptoed. So you know, whilst I was doing the content writing job, I just I actually did have an Instagram account when I started and I was just sharing writing on it. And that was lovely. When I was just sharing writing. I then was thinking okay, like this could actually be a business, I could offer services. I had trained in a lot of different healing arts. I was completing a micro business degree or certification. I obviously just enjoyed writing and sharing so I thought okay, I can create a business and as soon as I started thinking about it being like an actual business I think that's when the fear came up. And that's when this idea of the feminine aspects really came into light and sort of mirrored what I saw in the education system, where, you know, the entrepreneurial landscape is, I see it as like, very masculinized. Yeah. And so I was kind of like, okay, well, if I'm going to succeed in this, I'm going to have to do it like the way that I've seen on Instagram and have this like, solution based thing. Like, I can do this for you. And this is how I can help you and, and it just didn't feel right. It, it just there was something really off about it for me. And so for the next couple of years, I was kind of on this pendulum between, this is the way I like expressing this is how I want to write this is how I want to share. But then I also had this sense of this is how I should be sharing. This is how I shouldn't be creating a business like this is how I should be showing up. And what do you know, you're right in nature, and just kind of share my things and, and really trust that the right people will come to me. And I had a sense of how to do that. But I didn't trust it for quite a while. And I think I was very much in that in between stage of not quite trusting this different way of doing things. And still listening. Because you know, I love reading, I love observing. And so you know, I would just observe what people were doing them also then what I learned from my business course, it was mostly just observing other women who had set up these online businesses. And when you observe things, they kind of just seep, well, for me anyway, they just kind of seep into you.
Jessica: Yes, I totally know.
Belinda: When I found that, like I looked back at some of my original notes, because I've got like so many notes or just, you know, ideas and blog posts, a lot of them I didn't ever publish, but I can I can hear this contortion in my voice. And I can hear myself trying to yes, squeeze my expression into something that I think will work better than my natural way. There was that for quite a while.
Jessica: Wow. Wow, all of so much of that resonated with me because I'm the same way I feel like for so long. And I had the interesting path of doing it that way. And just doing it because that's how you're supposed to do it. And every day showing up or almost being in that mindset of like, Okay, it's time to dive in, it's time to dive in. That was kind of my phrase for myself, like it's time to dive in for the day. And in that I would get lost all day long. And then in the evening, it was so hard to come back to myself. And I got to a point where I didn't feel like I was myself at all anymore. I didn't know where I began. And my business began because I was being, I don't want to say inauthentic, I was being as authentic as possible within that kind of go go push push force force, mentality or mindset of what how I thought I had to do business. And there were so many parts of me that were kind of falling apart. realizing now that, wow, I didn't have to do it that way. I don't have to do it that way. I never had to do it that way. That was just kind of a belief system that I told myself because everybody else is doing it that way you couldn't possibly be successful. By being yourself or being true to I would say your needs, I guess that would, that's how I would put it is my needs are to be a little bit slower to be, take a little bit of more time to myself to turn inward when I need to turn inward. And that's not really accepted nowadays. Like if you want to be successful in business. The idea is you need to hustle, you need to have you know, you need to be organized. You need to have your life together. You have it all together, have it all planned in a planner, have it all organized in a notion, you know, it needs to be every step of everything needs to be spaced out planned out. And I think people don't even realize you can maybe do it another way.
Belinda: Yeah, when you said that thing about authenticity and not feeling authentic. I really, I really resonate with that because I also had to do a lot of it's okay like if you're not exactly as your inner self wants to be. I think we can swing from that, you know, trying to do it the way everyone else who's doing it. And then this other way where we're like, okay, if I'm not like completely 100% authentic in every moment, then it's not good enough. And what I found is any type of expression, it's never going. Yeah, it is just, if you're expressing it, it is authentic in that moment. And, okay, that you're kind of just trying different things, and trying on other people's ways of doing things. I think that's actually necessary, before you come to your own equilibrium, and your own way. I think as well, in the online space, we think we have to be authentic about everything, and like, every aspect of our lives. And for me, I, you know, what I share in Soul and Self that's like one part of my life and my passion. It's not, you know, like my whole personality. It's not the only things that I love talking about and sharing on. But it really helped for me to have that focus, where I was like, Okay, this is what I feel is really resonant to share. And I think this is something that will actually support other people. So this is what I'm going to refine my business into. And I have to bring in every single other thing that I'm going through for a feeling or grappling with, I can kind of stick to these, this type of expression for this type of business. And that will evolve and change over time, that I don't have to put pressure on myself to authentic in that way of, I'm going to show you every single thing about my life, otherwise, I'm not being authentic.
Jessica: Wow, wow. I think that's so important. I know, I talked about this in a previous episode, where I think we are in a culture of almost oversharing, where we feel like sharing intimate moments and our most vulnerable moments is being authentic, when in reality, a lot of times you're violating our own boundaries in doing so. And I guess the question is, we can do anything, it's, it's not necessarily a question of, can we, but how do we feel doing it? Like really deep within ourselves? What is the cost of the can, I always say is like, we can do it, but at what cost? And is it a cost that we're willing to pay?
Belinda: Yes, yes. And I wrote an article a while ago, it was called, I think “Connection Versus Extraction.”
Jessica: Yes, I read that one.
Belinda: Yes. So it was all about exactly that, like how you feeling doing the thing. And you know, sharing everything online for some people that is completely authentic, and that enlivens them and inspires them. And they're doing it from a space of like, I couldn't even imagine doing it any other way. And I love that. For me, I was like, Oh, I feel like that over sharing, I was thinking I should do it. Because like, that's how you're told that you develop trust and connection, but it wasn't actually feeling. I mean, I feel like I do share quite a lot in my blog posts. But it's kind of in a in a gentler way. And that was way, that felt right for me. And yeah, I found that anything that I do in my business, if it's coming from this place of, I'm doing this to get that it just taints it, like it just kind of, and it just feels all false. And I'm like, it just doesn't. I don't know, it doesn't work, like an example is lead magnets, you know, lead magnets. And so, you know, when I first started and look, I think lead magnets are great. What they did teach me is how to, you can sell something, it's free. But I think it's a really good stepping stone to offer something and see if people are interested in it. What I then found was, I was getting hundreds and 1000s of these people signing up for this lead magnet, I think I offered this little mini journal feminine healing journal. And I just hated emailing because I had these 1000s of people and I was just like, Oh, I just don't know if that actually connected to what I'm saying. It feels like it you know, I've been there. I'm sure many of us have been there when we just want to grab all the freebies, because we're learning and you know, and then when the actual person starts emailing, we're like, oh, I don't know about this. I just kind of wanted the baby. And so those were the things that I was really thinking about when I was in the middle of this business creation. I really didn't want to do that whole, I need to like speak to everyone and get my I've heard in as many different places as possible. For me it felt safer and gentler and just more aligned to really try and connect with people who just wanted to hear more from me. It wasn't because they wanted something free, it wasn't because they were coming from that place of Oh, like, I need a quick fix for this. I just wanted people in this space that yeah, just resonated with and, you know, if they then decided to go deeper into paid offerings, and that was wonderful, but I didn't want there to be any force or pushing or oversaturation or, yeah, it just didn't feel right for me. And a lot of time to trust that, because I feel like if you know, you've dipped your toe in the online business world, it's all like, just get as many people on your email list. And then, you know, the conversion rate will be, you know, point this, that and then you can convert this many. And just even that languaging of converting, and yeah, it just never, never felt right to me, even though I completely understand the, I guess the realities of business is that we're in business, because we want to make an income. And so I thought, Well, no, there's got to be a way to do this, to create an income, but not have to have this what I perceive to be, and maybe for other people, it's not like that. But for me, this force, this dehumanization, of customers and clients. Yeah, it just wasn't what I wanted to focus on.
Jessica: Wow, wow. No, I think you're incredibly brave, for saying things like that. And I think that's very countercultural. And I don't think it doesn't resonate with people, because I think anyone listening who is experienced, you know, on Instagram, or it's like, DM for the free guide. I think dehumanised is the perfect word for it, where you're commenting, and you're getting this AI bot. And I have to say that there are so many things along my business journey that I've tried like that. And immediately I just can't follow through on it. And I thought it was a me problem, you know, where it's like, Oh, this feels so gross, and so icky. I can't keep doing this. Like, I'd rather just not do anything at all than do this. And so to hear someone say, well, maybe there's another way, that's really powerful. And I think a lot of people are, are living it, whether they're online business creators or not, maybe they're interested in starting a business. They say you I could never do it this way. Well, maybe there's a different way to do it. So I'm curious. So you said that you kind of started more on the business route, but then you brought in kind of the concepts of the feminine into that, as you went on? Because was it that you started to work with clients, and then recognized that? Oh, wow, they are having a really hard time softening into their feminine energy. Tell me how that, like how that evolution happened.
Belinda: So I yeah, I sort of did a few things at once, though, it started off not at all business related to my blogging was very, I laugh because I feel like my first blogs, I kind of sounded like this 70 year old, like philosopher. It just really does. And I didn't know that was a very, I really liked that it was just what was coming out at the time. And then I ended up stopping look through that. I'm just trying to like, piece together exactly. Like when I started what, when I started offering client work, I started offering healing. So I had done, like Theta Healing, and some different energetic modalities. And but even that, I sort of had a bit of or I don't know if I want to just do these, like quick fix type things, where I have this session, and then we kind of excavate all the things and that didn't seem quite right. But once again, I thought I needed like this really tangible service. So I just started experimenting, really, I experimented with that. I then thought, well actually, I really liked the writing side. So I can also have that. And that was another whole thing because I was like, Okay, I'm supposed to pick one thing in my business, and I'm supposed to narrow it down and make it really clear for people that I really kind of enjoyed having a mix of things. And so then it was the feminine focus started when I was working with clients, and there was this like sense of this constant, them thinking that they were wrong for being them. And then thinking that they needed to, like break through all of these blocks, and, you know, just fix themselves. And it just got me thinking, hang on, well, maybe there's actually nothing wrong with a lot of the ways that will work, we're wanting to do things. Maybe it's that we are living in a society, where we have this very masculinized approach to doing things. And you know, not that I at all think anything masculine, is that at all, I think it's an amazing energy in the world. But it's very overpowering. And those softer aspects of life, those kinds of non quantifiable, those intangibles, those things just valued enough, particularly in the business landscape where, you know, we're trying to create income for our work. And, yeah, so I think you know, that whole healing well, very much overlaps with the kind of self help personal development, even like spiritual striving world, there's always something that we're having to do to overcome ourselves. And even just being in that space and listening to a lot of the stories, I was like, this is so exhausting for us. Constant over analysis and figuring it out and trying to fix and, you know, until we fix this, we can't do this. And until we figure this out, we can't do this. And so that's when I organically just started writing a little bit more about the business side of things, because obviously, I was creating my own business as well. So I had sort of firsthand experience of all of this. And so yeah, it kind of all went together, it was very much the, the healing was first and then the content writing. And then with the content writing, I started terming it as feminine business, because that was how people connected. I was like, people aren't going to be searching for content writing, they're going to be looking for business. And yeah, so that's kind of how that intertwine in 2003, organic, it was just a lot of experimentation, seeing what felt good. Just writing and sharing.
Jessica: Yeah, wow. Wow. I know, I think I read a phrase from you, I can't remember if you said something about constant self optimization. And it was just like, ding, ding, ding, because like you said, it's not just in the business world, but it's also in the health world. It's in the energetic world, the kind of spiritual world, it's this idea that we constantly have to change, or we're constantly moving towards this pinnacle. And it makes us think that where we are is never good enough. We can't just be where we're at. And there's so many things that I've so many of your words that I've read, but when I read that I was like, you nailed it, like self optimization is constant need to move in a direction? How exhausting. This really is. And I think so many of my listeners, at least many of the women listening today, they are there, they've recognized that, wow, I'm exhausted. But I think the next question I've gotten so many inquiries of what do I do next? What do I do about it? How do I, you know, how do I get into my feminine energy? I think that's the main kind of question. It's just this idea that you have to do something that where you are not good enough, maybe women feel like they're leaning more towards that masculine energy. Maybe they're working a job that they feel like they just can't come up for air. It's just wake up, go to work, you know, work all day, come home, do it again. And they have no space, no wiggle room. And so their question is always, how do I get into feminine energy? But could you maybe explain, I guess, so hard to explain what feminine energy is, but could you do your best to kind of explain why that might not be the best approach and what it actually looks like, like maybe walk through kind of a journey of one of your clients or something like that?
Belinda: Yes. It's so funny, because like that “how-to” is exactly my business. No, like, this is what is like, how to like why can I think of this five step how to like, walk people, and then I was like, because it is not a five step, ten step, twelve step, halfway. I think it's so personal to every person and I think that you, even just the word feminine, I must say like, there's so many times where I've just wanted to take the word feminine out of my work, because I think that I don't know, there's just so much that, like, you see other people talking about feminine this and feminine that and like you have to be in your feminine energy. I think what I was talking about in the education system, I noticed that it kind of it was starting to be almost like used as this, if you get into your feminine energy, then you can achieve within these masculine roles.
Jessica: It's extractive just in that alone, definitely.
Belinda: And then, yeah, it's been really interesting with the way I express things in my business, because I've never wanted to bring people into my work with that notion of, if you do this, you'll get that if you learn how to get in your feminine energy, then this will happen. And that will happen. Because I just don't think that that's what we're seeking. At heart. I know, for me, understanding and exploring the more feminine aspects. And they've been, has been more about this reconnection to something that is quite intangible. That is quite unseen. And it's about, I guess, the best way I could describe it is it's kind of like the feeling beneath the doing. And, you know, you can see it in life where two people can be doing the same thing. But the quality of the energy, while they're doing it is completely different. Like we could be stacking the dishwasher. And one person can be like, Oh, this is just a task I have to do to get to that. And then another person can just be doing it and enjoying it. And I don't know, it's this kind of text beneath the doing. That's my personal perception of feminine energy. I mean, I know there's a lot of different perceptions. And I think that's another thing we're trying to, like, define what it is. Because it's like, okay, the whole point of it is that it's a quite intangible and subjective. It's really subjective. And we don't like that in our world, and especially in the business space, it's like, you have to be certain there's only one answer. And that person, that person can't be right, if they're saying something different to that person. And, you know, and that's when the online space can get so messy. I think that's another big thing about social media, it can sometimes just become this. Oh, like, they all can't be right. But actually, they can. Yeah, there is a subjective texture to our lives that's based on experience and this very unique, individual essence that we all have that relates to life in a slightly different way. And I don't think that we all need the same thing. And so yeah, I think that's a big part of it is this subjective experience, and that can be really hard to trust and have confidence in when you're traversing a world that says that there's one right answer. Even in intangibles like spirituality, there's one, there's one way of connecting with God, there's one way of getting salvation, you know, like that, just It's in everything, even in those more intangible sectors as well.
Jessica: So we can't bullet point feminine energy, we can't we can't put bullet points to this, like you said, it's so subjective. And I love how you explained it as the texture beneath everything. Like that is a perfect way to describe it, the feeling behind the doing, because I think that's where a lot of women are getting stuck. It's like, like you said, it's this one way, I need to make sure I'm doing it the right way, I need to just break through and get into my feminine energy. And that completely kind of defeats the point. And we do live in a society where we try to almost hyper analyze or over understand everything. And I think you are someone that mentioned this, and I've heard a few others mentioned this as well is really when you're talking about this softening or the underlying kind of texture behind life. You don't have to fully understand it. You have to be okay with not fully understanding it because that is an essence or part of the feminine essence.
Belinda: Yes, yes, absolutely. And that's so hard for us. And I think that is that part of us that is really beautiful that wants to understand, and I think that's a really nice bridge. But there does come a point, and it's like an always evolving point where we get so far with understanding something mentally, and then we just have to suffer into with feeling it, and experiencing it, as opposed to figuring it out. And that definitely been a big lesson, even in the way that I share and express my writing and my work, I think I have put a lot of pressure on myself in the past to try to explain things in a clearer way, you know, to linearize it all to get that, because you know how you probably get this on social media where you'll get a comment, like, Well, how do I, this is probably not going to tell you in the comment section. We like oh, it's just, yeah, I mean, look for some things, I've got courses, you know, my Growing a Business Without Social Media course, that's a lot more linear. I have, like practical things that I do. And so you know, there are some things that obviously, you can give people how to use. But for the feminine healing, that sort of feminine reconnection, I would say, like, there are a few things, I guess, principles, more so than how tos. And so the first one, I guess, for me was slowing down. And just allowing myself to taking the pressure off, taking the pressure off from needing to be a certain way, needing things to look a certain way, needing to achieve in a certain timeline. So just kind of taking that pressure off and giving yourself a little bit of space and room to explore and experiment and reconnect. So that would be the first one. And then I think another big part of it, for me has been, well, my journey anyway, you know, in my daily life, in my very early life, I think I was very much attuned to that feminine energy. And as you grow up, or for me, I found, instead of like being in your own body, you start running your life through the lens of outer perception. So you're sort of cooled out of just this very innocent way of being where you're just existing, and you're feeling and you're expressing from that being state. And then you move into this, this mind based way of existing, where it's not so much about what you feel, it's more about what it looks like, to the outer world. And, you know, I kind of was like, Oh, is it just me, and now with my work, I'm like, Oh, my God, everyone feels this. Yeah, so many people are sort of doing things. And it's, it's quite unconscious, a lot of the time, where we're just running things through the ATA. And I think, again, that's why the social media thing has come into my work a bit, because I feel like social media exemplifies that. And we kind of start living our lives, creating for this perception of ourselves, as opposed to just who we would naturally be, if we just trusted ourselves enough to, to be and just trusted that we were enough without sort of comparing and contorting ourselves into what we think we should be. And so I think that, for me, has been a big part of feminine healing. And it's kind of something that always comes up with the women that I work with. And the women that write to me and email me, is, yeah, this feeling of I have this inner desire, this inner sense of what I know, would nourish me, I have this inner sense of how I want to contribute and express in the world, but it doesn't feel like it's enough, compared to what I've been told I should do. And it's funny because it comes up, I think, in arenas that are very, what you would think of, like very feminine base, for example, motherhood, you know, there are so many mothers who I speak to who, it's the same thing as this striving to be seen as the perfect mother, and, you know, this kind of Keeping Up with the Joneses thing where I have to have this and do this, and my child has to be this way. And obviously, as a teacher, that's something in the education system as well. It's like, you know, parents want their children to be achieving in certain ways. And I think it's, you know, it's really normally in our society. We, yeah, we do have this lens. We're relational beings. So of course, we think about what other people how other people are perceiving us and I think especially women, we have that emotional kind of sense of attunement with the people around us. And yeah, so that's a really big one is just exploring and unweaving from that sense of have, I have to be what other people think I should be?
Jessica: Wow. I mean, you said so much that just resonates. I guess in your experience, what do you think that is? Because you mentioning the young girl, the little girl, I think about myself as well, I think we're all, as young women, we are already attuned to that feminine energy that is so natural to us. We are just being, we're just doing things we enjoy. We don't really care too much what other people think about us. And I think maybe it's, we get little, little comments here and there over the years. But what I guess in your experience, what come up with your clients? Why do you think that is? And how do you kind of, like you said, unravel that?
Belinda: I sort of have two perspectives on this. On the one hand, I think that maybe it's kind of meant to be this is just, you start as this kind of this really beautiful clean, like, ball of energy, and then you layer things on top, and then you take them off. And that's kind of this journey that we go on. And so you start off with this innocence. And then you move back into this innocence, but it's like an aware innocence. So it's extra. So that's one way to think of it. And I really saw that because I've taught children when they were quite young, and then I've seen them. So I think one of the groups of children that I taught, I saw them when they were sort of about nine or ten. And then I saw them like a decade later. So they've gone through, we all caught up. But it was actually a funeral, it was quite sad for one of the teachers. But it was beautiful to see all of these children that had grown up. And it was so interesting, because I saw them all. And they were like, Oh my gosh, hello, hello. And I could see all of their little kind of children's hearts. But then I almost physically see like what had been built up around them through all of these teenage years. And so there's a lot was like, still there, and there was still these people. But obviously, as you're going through adolescence and moving into adulthood, there are going to be these, these sort of walls that come up. And so that's when that visual of like starting here, and like layering things on, and then you move in to starting to take all the layers off. I think that really was exemplified when I see children that I've known from a young age move into adulthood.
Jessica: Why do you think it is that we as women get so far away from we kind of are working in other people's outward perception or almost like people pleasing? Like we live from a place of people pleasing, versus living from a place of authentic expression?
Belinda: Yes. It's a people pleasing is something that I think is so yeah, it's a really interesting concept, especially in like, the healing space. Like we can go from like people pleasing to, I don't care about anyone. And, you know, like, I'm gonna do me and, and that's that. And I think that, on the one hand, of course, that's a beautiful thing to, to express yourself that I always think there is this sense within a lot of us where we are relational beings. And actually, we do care. And we do want to connect with people. And we do want to make other people's experiences more joyful, more beautiful, more of whatever. And, though, with a lot of the women that I work with, and myself included, there is this balance that I find we are always exploring, between connecting with other people and having that sense of, I guess, grace and relationship with others, where yes, of course, there are ways that I feel in the moment and just want to express, but also knowing that me holding in an emotion that I don't think is going to serve the people around me, isn't people pleasing. It's just being a graceful human being who respects other people and understands that we all have an impact on other people's experience in this life. So I think that it's real, it's a really interesting midpoint to find, because for a lot of us, we do kind of have to go through that like more aggressive. Whatever. I'm just gonna be me and to me, and you know, but I always think, yeah, there's a difference between caring about other people and not caring so much about what they think of you. And I think that's where the feminine energy really activates, when we can still hold that relational essence of who we are. But we're doing it from love not for love. So we're kind of sourcing from something deeper, and allowing ourselves to express and relate in a way that isn't dependent on other people liking us, loving us, accepting us. But we kind of still know that we're okay. Because we have this deeper connection to something very intangible. That is the real kind of fuel and sauce for our life, if that makes sense?
Jessica: Oh yes, absolutely. No, that is really, really powerful. I think so many of us have built up, I talked about kind of the physiological reasons why we build up the shell around ourselves. And like you said, there's this push, where it's almost like thicken up your skin, thicken up your skin, so you don't care anymore. And that's not necessarily going to serve you either, because it's going to just make you harder on the outside, but more scared than you've ever been before. On the inside.
Belinda: Yes. And it feels inauthentic to us. I feel like you know, of course, we can go around and have this kind of sense of bravado about us. And sometimes yes, we do need to bring in a bit of that energy. I know, you know, sometimes we can get a lot of self doubt and lack of trust, when we're kind of moving into this path. So sometimes, like a little injection of that is really good. But I think it always comes back to that to that kind of self optimization, it feels like that energy again, kind of just like, the kind of masking just this essence, like we're having to put another layer on top of it. It's just a different type of layer. Yeah.
Jessica: Wow. Wow. Do you think that that just I don't know, this might be a weird question. But do you think that that is more masculine energy? Or is that kind of a scared feminine energy? It's, I don’t think there’s a right answer to it. I’m just curious!
Belinda: It’s so interesting, like trying to, I guess, like, decipher. You know, I love that question. And I sort of, you know, in, in some of my writings and work, I have kind of talked about things like the Wounded Feminine versus the Empowered Feminine. I think a lot of what we perceive the masculine in our culture is actually quite a distorted expression of the masculine. So I think the distorted masculine, from my perspective is the masculine without the feminine, and the feminine, the distorted feminine, is the feminine without any masculine. So when we're kind of in this people pleasing, kind of watery, not being able to assert our individuality and come back to that lie within us, then we are in that sort of wounded feminine space. When we're in that me, me, me, me like it's all about me, and who cares about anyone else, we're in that distorted, masculine state where we aren't in that relational state anymore. So I think they kind of all merge together. And my personal sense has always been that, and you know, this definitely isn't like, this isn't like a fact that I sense and feel. I feel that if your essence I say you feel like a core feminine essence, which a lot of women are not all, I don't think that a lot of the women that are drawn to my work definitely are. I think that if you're sort of a core feminine essence, then by honing in on the healthy expression of your feminine, you are automatically activating your masculine aspects as well, because you can't have a healthy feminine energy without there being a natural activation of your masculine energies. If at all.
Jessica: No, that makes perfect sense. Because I do think, we talked about just for those listening, it was in episode five, if you want to go back and listen to it, but we talked about what healthy masculine energy looks like. And it was, you know, it's full of generosity and provision. And just it's like this warm sun that you just want to soak in and you can never get enough of almost, when when somebody is in their healthy, masculine energy. Or if you're around even a man who has in his healthy, masculine energy. It's just it's like a warm soak in the sun. But so many women were like, Oh my gosh, that is just hearing it. They wanted to listen to it over and over again. And like you said, I think a lot of us if we are in this very like hustle, push, it's almost like we're in that like you said, wounded feminine. I was I've been in that place before where I'm just trying to provide for myself out of scarcity. and being afraid constantly and I don't know, if it's masculine energy or wounded, feminine, all kinds of goes into each other. But like you said, as you really soften into your true essence, you will have a healthy balance of both, you don't have to sit there and just, you know, putting a little bit on one side of the scale. And then oh, no, it's imbalanced, we got to add a little bit more to the seven. And it just kind of balances itself out, if not healthy expressions.
Belinda: And that's like what we were talking about before this over analysis and trying to figure everything out. And I think it's really interesting, because obviously, a lot of people who are talking about masculine feminine energies, it's part of their business. So it makes sense that of course, like people are trying to, like really linearize and, you know, give these how tos. And then that, like perpetuates this cycle of thinking that these things can just be explained in a kind of scientific way, when actually, the experiential concepts, they're, they're things that we have to run through the lens of our being, and we can obviously listen to other people's reflections on what they believe those energies to be. But I always think that you have to come to that understanding within yourself. And if something's kind of not resonating for you, or if it's pulling you into that deep over function, where your mind is just constantly trying to exactly what you said, Well, I'm a bit here, and I'm a bit there to do this. And it's just like more shorts more have to use. One of the articles I wrote was about, it was something like Organic Femininity Versus Synthetic Femininity, and, like trying to be feminine. Like can sometimes appear as well, this idea of like, okay, it's just another thing that we have to try and do, we have to do being feminine. Add it to the to do list to start get up and you know, be feminine. And it kind of turns into this, like this performance, this role, this personality, when, in my experience here that you know, feminine energy, it doesn't have like one way aggressing it doesn't mean that you have to go and get like a homestead and wear flowy dresses and bake bread. You know, I think that sometimes that's amazing, like love. I think that sometimes we can try and simplify it and linearize it into these roles or kind of personality traits or ideal ideologies. Even that can I mean, they feel really overwhelming to me, when I kind of tour or have a peek into what's going on in certain feminine healing, feminine reclamation spaces. There's lots of really beautiful things. But there's also lots of things that I yeah, I don't like reading because they just kind of put a taint on that agenda plus nature of the feminine. Yeah, they kind of make it seem like it's this thing that you have to do and be again, as opposed to just this very organic feeling.
Jessica: Yeah, I agree with you. I think there's so much, I guess, one word I would use to describe it is just pressure. Like, there's so much pressure of like, okay, I'm going to try to contort myself into this, whatever. But like you said, a lot of it is really tainted with ideology and personal opinion. And it's not actually the true essence of the feminine, which really, almost is a whisper compared to these things that demand to be seen or demand to be heard.
Belinda: And look, once again, that's just I mean, I do have a gentler, I guess, way of understanding the feminine. And I think that there are other understandings that other people have, which I don't think, yeah, I just think it's so multi layered that to try and fit into one thing and like, I never want to kind of domain any body else's work. Because I think the other thing is that it's taken me a long time to understand that just the way I write and the way I speak it, it kind of can be a bit whimsical, it can be a little bit circular, it's not as cut and dry. Whereas for some women, the way they express and create, that's the gift, they're really good at taking these ideas and putting them into a how to. And I think for a while I was just like, oh, I have to be able to do that. Especially as a teacher like I should. Even in the teaching realm. That's what I felt like I do, but it just never quite fitted for me.
Jessica: But what a gift that is. I love what you said because it can be a blend of both. We all can kind of have our gifts and strengths but I personally love the way that you write because it almost paints a visual or picture or an image in your mind very quickly, at least for me, that kind of, like you said, whimsical way of teaching, it explains the feminine essence, more than anything else could for me, it almost invokes a feeling. Well, I could talk to you about this stuff forever. I don't want to keep you forever. So I just want to ask you one more question. And this is probably for the women who, as most of my listeners know, I have recently pivoted my work quite dramatically. And so there are still listeners that are kind of having a hard time jumping on this train, I guess I'll say, or it still feels very woowoo, or kind of esoteric, in a way where there's nothing tangible here quite yet. And so I guess the question is, what are the consequences of us as women never really respecting our true nature, and always living outside of our natural gifts and our, our natural pace, and kind of just our past that we feel is in alignment? I think a lot of us maybe are living out of alignment. But we feel like, well, you know, what's the big deal? Like, I'm getting the bills paid, I'm doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I'm taking care of the kids taking care of my husband, like, you know, what's the big deal? Why does this stuff even matter? That much? Like what are the consequences of maybe not exploring this?
Belinda: I think that it is just the sense of not having that deeper connection to life, and just kind of going through the motions. And I think that for the feminine being that is exhausting. And it's like, we can sense that something very important is missing, we can't quite pinpoint what it is. Because we're like, we're still doing all the things, we're getting things done, like we might have, the life that looks really good, looks really successful. But yet, there's just that deeper texture of being that isn't there. And for a feminine essence person, I think that that can be quite depressing, and quite exhausting. And, you know, you've probably seen this as well with your clients. But it does tend to lead to a lot of burnout, and just a kind of almost sometimes an apathy for life, a sadness, a lack of fulfillment, you know, I think fulfillment, you know, a culture, we think it's this, you know, like, I need to, like, fulfill myself through all of these things that actually fulfillment is just fulfilling what's naturally within us. And so I think that, if we kind of veer off this, see that we all have within us, then we can feel it. And we might not be able to express it or understand it consciously. But we just start it. Yeah, I think we really do just start feeling the effects of that, then obviously, that's reflected in the quality of our relationships, I think the quality of our relationships is a big one, when our feminine being is really nourished and supported, we tend to have really lovely relationships, not just romantic, but just, you know, we just kind of connect with the right people. And I don't know, it's just a more enjoyable, creative, tender, soft way of existing.
Jessica: Agreed. I have attracted friends that I would not have before because I had the space and created the space and slowed down enough to really see the beauty. So I totally understand what you're saying. Well, thank you.
Belinda: Yes, sorry. One more thing. Yeah. I think that's the most important thing, you create a life that actually feels good, rather than just looks good. And you know, so even with that relational aspect, we have these people in your life who are truly seeing you, it's not kind of about all of these things that you have or you're doing. It's just this very pure agenda, this connection, and I think that's really beautiful.
Jessica: It really is, like to be seen and to be known. I think a lot of us don't feel that at all. And I can't tell you how many clients I've worked with who, they have the perfect picket fence life, and they're just drowning, suffocating, you know, and they can't quite put a finger on why. And I think a lot of women will chase, they take all the health tests and they, you know, go to the doctor and they start to change their diet. They're trying to do all the things and fix it. And it's not getting fixed, and they think something's wrong with them because of that. And I love your work because it's just it's a gentle whisper of well, there's more. There could be more there.
Jessica: Thank you so much for being here today. I know everyone is going to really enjoy it. And could you just share it? If anybody wants to learn more and read more of your writings or be taught by you because you have so much to teach? Where can they find you,
Belinda: You can just go to my website, www.soulandself.com just everything is there. I kind of try to keep everything very nice and gentle on the website. Yeah.
Jessica: Wonderful, wonderful, easy and simple. Thank you. Well, I will put the link in the show notes as well to so everyone can find you. And I appreciate you being here.
Belinda: Thank you so much for having me.
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