Episode 36
Transcript
Welcome back to the Fully Nourished podcast, a place to explore where female physiology and feminine energy dance together to shape our life experience. I'm your host, Jessica Ash, functional nutritionist and integrative health coach and I'm inviting you to journey with me through both the scientific and spiritual facets of what it looks like to awaken our feminine radiance and become deeply and fully nourished despite living in a society that is increasingly desperate to erase our female set-apartness. You ready?
As a reminder, everything in this podcast is for education and inspiration only and is not intended as medical advice. Please talk to the appropriate professional when necessary. And please use common sense before making any changes to your diet and lifestyle.
Introducing Libby Wescombe
Today's guest is my colleague and friend Libby Wescombe. If you don't know who Libby is, I'm really excited to introduce you to her. I have had the pleasure of working with her in many different ways over the past couple of years and just getting to know her. And you know those people in your life where the more you learn about somebody, the more impressed you are by just who they are, their strength, their mental resilience, their compassion. Over the years, I've just gained more and more and more respect for Libby. And not only do I respect her as a professional, but also just as a person, she's truly incredible. And on a professional level, she is what encompasses a true fitness professional. In the age of everybody being a fitness expert, everybody being a fitness influencer, everybody being a personal trainer, it's actually very difficult to find fitness professionals that are focused on all of the important components of body composition. At the end of the day, there's nothing wrong with wanting to change your body composition, to build muscle, to utilize the fat tissue that you've stored up, to want to look the way you want to look. And develop a type of almost artist relationship with your body where you are lovingly molding it into your vision and using your wildest imagination to do so.
However, if you're doing it by building muscle at the expense of all of your other tissue, because you're not fueling properly, and you're not actually focused on the metabolism, you can cause a lot of damage in the long run and a lot of us have experienced that where we've overtrained and under ate. And maybe we were fit for a time, but it was very difficult to sustain it long term. And we often find ourselves over the course of our life as women having these higher and higher thresholds for needing to exercise more and more and more and eat less and less to be able to get to the body composition that we would like. And so what I love about Libby is she's truly educated. She knows the science of fitness and she's not afraid to expand her viewpoints and almost in a sense change her mind.
One of you suggested that I interview her about her unique background because she has a very unique story. Not many people can say that they grew up in a cult and have lived their most formative years in Thailand and the Middle East, working and being treated like an adult from a very young age. Yet, that's a part of Libby's story that you're going to hear today. And so yes, in today's episode, we dive into some of the nitty gritty details of fitness and body composition and even ask her the question of what is so bad right now about wanting to be hot. I think there's almost a shame in women wanting to change their bodies and wanting to feel sexy and desirable in their own skin. And so we even talk about that. But I also hope you're truly and deeply inspired by a woman who faced extreme challenges as a young woman, and face things that made her tremble in fear, and yet, put her head down and overcame them and has not made them a part of her identity, has not made them an excuse or a crutch that she leans on, and has actually used them as a catalyst to alchemize them in a way to give her strength and compassion. I think it's part of the reason why she's so gifted as a coach today. So with that being said, I hope you enjoy today's interview.
Jessica: Thank you so much for being here. I love you. And I think that I look up to you so much in so many ways. There's so many times during my days that I think of you just because to me, you are almost the epitome of like a true resilient, feminine woman. Just in so many ways. You don't let anything define you and there So many facets to you like, I feel like you have so much depth to you. And I always, whenever you say something, or whenever you talk about something it’s like I always just want to know more, know more about you. So today, I would love to dive into the Libby behind the mask, in a way. And just, I don't know, I know you have a very unique background. You have mentioned a few times on socials, and I only really know what you've talked about publicly of you growing up in a cult. And I find that just absolutely. I mean, I can't wait to hear about just how that's led you to this place.
Libby: Yeah. Oh, well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I feel the same about you. I think because we've known each other for quite a long time now, I think it's like what, 2019 or something? I was just kind of drawn to you. And I love how you've just always been, you know, willing to kind of question things like that’s something that's super important to me. So yeah, thank you for that. Thanks for having me. But yeah, so definitely grew up in a cult. So I was actually born into a cult, my parents left Australia, they're both from Tasmania. And they both got kind of recruited into this cult, it was called the Children of God. And they left Tasmania, they're just like hippies back in the day in the late 70s. And they went to Thailand, and I was born there. So I was actually born into a cult, which was pretty crazy, because that's kind of all I ever knew. So I was I, as a kid growing up as a teenager, I was within the confines of the cult. So I had to do like a lot of adult stuff from probably age 11, 12, I was just basically considered a full adult. So I had a very short childhood. And it was a very unusual childhood. So I didn't really get to have a childhood that most people have. And in a way, I feel like that's probably benefited me in some ways. But then at the same time, it's obviously caused me, you know, to have difficult, a difficult childhood. And yeah, so I look back and I, you know, I can see where it has benefited me as an adult. Like it's made me very independent. It's made me able to question everything, and I don't have any particularly strong stance on anything now. So in that way, it's helped me but yeah, of course, it was very difficult in other ways as well. But yeah, like, what in particular, did you want to know about it, but it's hard to talk about it in the sense that it's so vast for me, and I have such a hard time explaining it in a nutshell to someone.
Jessica: Yeah, I guess it's like, it was my life. I, you know, I guess I love the way that you say that it has shaped you. And I'm curious. So the part where you said that you you know you missed out on the on parts of childhood that most people have. But on the flip side, it made you independent and made you question everything. So what point do did you feel because it was probably normal growing up?
Libby: Yeah.
Jessica: Like you didn't think anything of it. That was just your normal?
Libby: Yeah.
Jessica: At what point did you like, how did you, I don't want to say escape? Because that's like, I feel like that's like the story that everybody after, but at what point? Did you just start thinking and questioning things and kind of kind of coming into your own? And what where did that lead you as a woman?
Libby: Yeah, so it's really interesting, because like, as we were younger, we were always told that so they call them systemites, anyone who wasn't in the cult, they were, you know, and if we left the cult, we were called backsliders. So it was very much shameful and guilt driven to stay in the cult growing up, we also were told that basically, we were like, Jesus was going to come back and he was going to rescue us and like within our lifetime, so we had no like, you know, long term vision, we were just, we're just doing this until he comes back to take us all up into heaven, and everyone else is going to hell or whatever. So it was like this constant, there was this constant guilt and this constant, very much shame based reasoning for why we need to stay in the cult. So it was very much shame based, like we could not question anything. If we questioned anything, we were like, got in trouble for it. So we were you know, punished quite severely for sort of questioning or anything. So I guess I always from probably around the age of like, 8, 9, 10, 11 I always kind of knew there was something out there that wasn't part of my world. So I knew that was a statewide world, but I just never started to actually question it until I think it was just puberty, adolescence, that's when I sort of started coming into my own. I guess it was my own personality as well. Just you know, you can call it genetics, you can call it personality. But interestingly enough, I was living with my mom and dad and so I had been separated them from them from when I was seven, up until I was 12. And I didn't barely ever get to see them. I was living in like a big compound and I was separated from them. And then I went back to live with them at around age 12. And from around age 12 to 16 I started obviously, asking things and questioning things and my little brain just started going off as it does. And my mum actually was the one who sent me away, and she sent she sent me away. She told me, she's not around anymore. She passed away last year. But she told me this fairly recently that she could see herself and me and she didn't want me to get into trouble. So she sent me to the Middle East, which was part of the cult still, but it was a little bit less strict, I guess you could say. And so when I was 17, I went to the Middle East. And then I stayed in the Middle East from 17 to 21. And then I left the cult completely from the Middle East, came to Australia by myself at 21. So that's when I made the final decision. But during those years in the Middle East, I was slowly, it's insane to think about it, like my brain was just making one connection after another, until I finally had to make that leap and left.
Jessica: Wow. So yeah, you're kind of like breaking through all of these. Really what it is, is like brainwashing. And you're like, you know, I'm being told one thing, this is not what I'm seeing with my own eyes, I need to question it. And then okay, I feel like you're like kind of unlocking one thing at a time. You know, it's interesting, I know that your situation is different than a lot of religious groups out there right now. But there's some very similar themes that have this idea of like, you're not allowed to question anything. You're, there's an us versus them mentality, this idea that, like, you're always focused, like, right in front of you kind of keeping you in that survival mode, because then you're easy to control. It's like, oh, no, at any point this disaster’s going to happen. It's, it's not that far of a stretch from like, what many people believe right now?
Libby: Yeah. And it's funny, because while it did, well, I can see the good side of me and the things that certain things develop. There's also ways that it damaged me in the sense, like, what what you're saying about how you're always so focused, you're only allowed to be focused on the present, you can't think long term. I mean, even now, I'm like, 41. And I still feel like I'm a child in many ways. I feel like I don't have the adult responsibilities. And like, when it comes to things like finances, that's something I've struggled with my whole life, just being able to think, how am I going to save for the future? How am I like all these things where it's just like, you were not taught any of that, you know, like, even just figuring out directions, or just different life skills. So I can see where it did damage me as well. And that's one of those massive things. And I feel like it's actually quite, like it's done on purpose. So that you don't question, you don't think of the big wide world out there. And you only think about, you know, survival. It literally was survival like, How can I not get in trouble today? How can I make sure I'm not questioning anything today? So having that constantly having to get out of that, now that I, ever since I left and slowly built my life, I can see how those things affected me as well. And I often tell my partner I'm like, I just don't feel like the like everyone else is such an adult with their decisions, like they have their whole life planned out. Still. Now I'm like, Do you know what I mean? It's weird.
Jessica: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely. And I'm sure so many women listening feel that same way in some shape, or form. I feel like a lot of us, especially I feel like a lot of my listeners are religious in some way. I have a lot of Christian listeners. And there is some elements of that, especially like in the homeschooling community, I was homeschooled. And so that can be a big part of it. Really, depending on the parents' view of the world. And the community that they're in, it really determines how people get equipped. And if you don't think that anything in life is that important, and you're just kind of focused on like Jesus coming back or, you know, just surviving, you're not going to equip a child in the same way that you would if you were like, I want them to be a functioning adult, I want them to not only like thrive, but excel, I think of children, like, here they are, they have so much to teach us. But we have so much to teach them as well, like, let's do a little exchange and let's guide each other. But it often is not happening that way any longer. Okay, so you finally you break through, you're I mean, you're growing up in such an interesting environment, too. You grew up in Thailand, you grew up, you went to Tasmania, right? That was like the second place that you're in.
Libby: So I was in Thailand. And then I went to the Middle East. I didn't actually go, I came to Australia once when I was I think I was 15, which actually played a very pivotal role in making the decision to leave and that's because I sort of met some of my cousins. And I was like, so I was in the cult, but we visited because my grandparents were about to die. So we visited and I even had one of them say to me, like if you ever need anything, you can come and live with us. Okay, so there was little pivotal points. But yeah, I didn't actually ever move to Australia until I finally left the cult. So it was Thailand in the Middle East, of course visiting other a few other countries, like I've been to, like, you know, just we just have to do visa trips and all that kind of stuff. But yeah, from 17 to 21 I was in the Middle East, which was a whole unique experience in itself. And that's when I finally came to Australia when I was 21. So I literally was like done from the cult. So I made the decision. And I had the leader, she was basically like, oh, but she took me in her room every day. And she was crying and basically saying, Are you sure you want to do this? Like, the whole guilt tripping and everything. But I found that when I made my decision, I made my decision. I wasn't going to be swayed. Yeah.
Jessica: Yeah, like the control was slipping, which is why she was so sad. Wow, that that is insane. So I mean, that's a brave step to just go off on your own, you went completely just by yourself to family.
Libby: So my older sister was in Australia, but she was still in the cult, the cult was also here in Australia. So she had left Thailand, and she had gone to Australia to join the cult here. So it was definitely more liberal. And they could do certain things like make money, for example. Whereas when I was part, we had no money. So we weren't allowed to work for money. So we only had to work for the cult. Wow, basically slaves, pretty much. But her and her husband were kind of starting to, you know, I guess probably make their own money in that. And her husband, her ex husband, sorry, was against the cult and she was still in the cult. So it was this kind of dynamic there. That was a bit weird. Anyways, I had secretly asked her if I could borrow money from them to book a one way ticket because I was not going to be given any money from anyone. So I was literally just going to be stuck in the Middle East with no money. So I had to find a way to come to Australia. So I messaged her and she sent through $1,000 and up for a one way ticket. And I had someone help me in the Middle East actually book it and everything. He was in the cult, of course. But you know, there was like different layers of rebellion, different people and that so I got that book. And yeah, I just got on the flight, had a stopover in Hong Kong. I remember I almost got lost, because I just didn't know anything about the real world. Hong Kong is huge. The airport, I barely made the flight from Hong Kong to Australia. And then when I got here, to Sydney, her ex husband picked me up. And that's where I started. And I lived with them for a bit. So because he was against the cult, they had moved out of the cult, she was still trying to be in the quality, she would go there every day and work for them still. So it was this kind of weird thing where yeah, like, I remember having conversations about it with her. And she was still like, oh, I don't want to talk about it and that type of thing. But I basically had to get set up here from scratch. I didn't exist in Australia, according to them. So there was a lot of suspicion there who I was, I had just left this cult. And I felt like I was in trouble for being a person here in Australia, like a citizen is really weird. Like I had to go to what they call it Centrelink here, which is where you get help from the government. And I had to get, it's called Newstart Allowance, which is where you get a little bit of money to get you started. But you have to be looking for work. It was so complicated. They didn't accept any of my, because you have to get like a certain point system to show your actual identity, and I didn't have any of these things. I only had like a birth certificate and Thai citizenship paper and a passport. And that wasn't enough total points. But I didn't have a driver's license. I had nothing. So I had to go to a random library and get a library card to make up the points so they could actually accept me as a human and an individual and citizen. Yeah, it's really intense.
Jessica: And how scary for you.
Libby: I know. And then I'd start looking for work right away. Just so I could you know, pay some rent my sister and yeah.
Jessica: Wow. So you're like, here you're like I have, I know nothing about any of this stuff. And you're just thrown right in. Wow. And then like rewinding a little bit so you said you couldn't work you had to work for the cult. What did that look like? So yeah, you guys had no money. So what did that look like with like clothes and food and stuff like that? Like were you guys always hungry and stuff like that?
Libby: Yeah, we would get hand-me-downs a lot for clothes. When I was in the Middle East we got what we call it like a little bit of money each month like an allowance but it was literally like $20. So I would just kind of use that for whatever you know, some jewelry that I wanted or something but oftentimes we would go to market so like these secondhand shops, thrift stores, and they would just be like okay, you guys can get three pieces each or something, so you do that kind of thing where you definitely don’t have nice clothes. And with as far as the hunger, yeah, everything was basically rationed. Like you're not going to go and be allowed to have two pieces of fruit when you can actually only have one so everything was rationed in Thailand when I was living apart from my parents, so I became so skinny I think that's why they actually sent me back to my parents. Like beyond any like just malnourished so I just didn't eat sometimes, like they would do like mung beans and lentils but cooked really gross for like lunch and I was just the type of kid that I didn't want it. I'd just not eat and then right yeah, there was there was very little food and it was pretty gross. When I moved back to my parents we had, it's funny because we had a lot of the foods that people consider healthy now and like they're all up on their high horse with their liver and stuff, but like that was every month we had liver for dinner or like, you know but I guess you get some healthy things from it. But yeah, yeah, just mostly cheap.
Jessica: Wow. Wow. So getting established here and starting your own life? What did that look like for you? Like? How did you unpack that? Were you just were you in a survival mode for a long time? Do you feel like it just kind of unfolded as a date? Because you weren't really aware? You're just trying to survive truly?
Libby: Yeah, survival mode. Yeah, 100% for a long time, you know, there's something even just about that, that I feel benefited me as well. And that is that I have the ability to not overly complicate things as well, because I was like, I, I've done all this. And I've been through all this. And I've had like a lot of close calls, even life and death things. And so now I just don't overcomplicate life, I don't make things mean so much more than they have to mean because I'm like, I was able to go through all of that. And I'm happy today, like, I'm genuinely happy as an individual. So I think there's also that sort of side to people where it's like, you know, sometimes life is just going to happen, sometimes it's just going to suck. And it doesn't have to be always this deep personal growth, what do they call it, like inner child healing and all this stuff. And I do think there's a place for that. And it's important, but I think that's also very trendy right now. And if you look at other cultures, you know, they just there's this TikTok trend, where it's like, my mom's like, Indian parents or African parents. And it's like, the way they talk about their kids versus the way their kids respond to something. It's like night and day difference. And, and I get some of it's a trauma response. And like, I get all of that, but at the same time, I think we overdo that a lot now. So yeah, I was definitely in survival mode. And it probably wasn't good for my hormone levels, like cortisol and all of that. But then at the same time, it's the only way it's literally the only choice I had, so I had to do what I had to do.
Jessica: Yeah, that's when survival is good. That's when survival’s important.
Libby: I got pregnant the year that I left because I met a guy who was who I was seeing, and we were not allowed to use birth control in the cult. So I knew nothing about birth control, which is probably a good thing as well, because I didn't want to be on the pill. I tried it after for like two days. I'm going off it but but um, yeah, I got pregnant, so then you have to deal with that as well.
Jessica: And wow, so you left while you're pregnant?
Libby: No, I got pregnant after dating a guy for just three months, and I got pregnant.
Jessica: Wow. Wow. Because you're here you are in this like super vulnerable situation just trying to survive trying to create a life for yourself. Wow. And how do you feel about that? Was that scary to you as well, or…?
Libby: Pregnancy wasn't actually that scary because I had grown up since I was 11, 12 being non stop taking care of kids and I loved babies. It wasn't actually even that scary. Like, I bought everything for her from like a second hand shop. I didn't get the most expensive pram and I didn't, you know, I just did what I could do.
Jessica: Yeah. That's great. That's funny. That's amazing. So becoming a mother, how did that change you? Going through all this and becoming a mother? Do you feel like it in a way, because I know you have such a good relationship with Ash now? And she's like, such an amazing. Amazing. Did you guys grow up together? Did you guys mature together?
Libby: It's interesting, because she's obviously I had to have that parenting role on that mother role. But I feel like sometimes it's more just a friend, you know, because I guess she's now she's my size. My like, she wears my clothes. Like, it's just yeah, it's it was a very unique relationship. But the thing I do like about it is that she trusts me to tell me things and she asks me for advice. And so it's Yeah, I feel like you could, you could have some parents who claim just as like more of a scary figure, whereas she's more of like a mom, you know, or like, there's relationship issues, because she has a boyfriend. She's like, Oh, you know, am I normal for feeling this way? And I'm like, yes. You know, like, let's work through that. So, yeah, it's kind of good in that way. I do. I think that's awesome. But having her as a as a young person and also trying to establish myself, it was it was hard, because there were times when I didn't even know if I had enough money to feed myself. So I could just buy her things or so like, in that way, like I was just broke for basically, a good 10 years straight having put food on the table. And yeah, it's it's hard.
Jessica: Yeah, I'm sure you had to sacrifice a lot. Yeah. And it's just, you're amazing, because it's kind of do you have an attitude of just like, I did it, it's done. What's done is done. And like, I've moved on from it.
Libby: Yeah, I do. I, it's more than I actually really, really, really have a lot of compassion for the past version of myself. I actually, like affectionately named her little Libby. And anytime I think about the past version of her and what she had to do, I just have nothing but compassion. So it's more that than what's done is done. It's more like that sucked. But like, wow, like the fact that she that I did what I did, and that I went through what I went through and that I am who I am today. It's just like, it's honestly just compassion. So I think that's probably that attitude probably helps me cope with lately is as you get older, you feel more trauma from your past as well. And sometimes I do think about things a lot more, but I still just come back to that, like, yeah, I made mistakes. Yeah, you know, I wasn't always the best mom and I've been, it's just, it just comes back to compassion. And it's genuine, deep, deep compassion. And I try to put that also towards my current self and my future self, because I sometimes will need to do something that I feel like I don't want to do or whatever it is. And I just always think, but Future Living is going to just be so happy that you did this or that you took care of yourself or that you looked after that. So yeah, I think we can use that sometimes with healing, compassion, yeah,
Jessica: That's powerful. That really is powerful. And I can't imagine if more women felt that way about their past, because so many women have been in places or experiences where they truly, we've all done the best we can with what we had, there was nothing else we could do. We we did the best we could with what we knew the best we could with the resources we had. And how many of us are just kind of rehashing that over and over, over and over instead of focusing on what can I do here. And now we have a joke in our household to like, future self is going to be thanking current self, you know, like this idea of like, let's give future self a gift right now. And it's a powerful, powerful perspective. So I'm curious how you found fitness, because you are the fitness queen, you are so fit. And I look up to you so much, because you have such a discipline. But it's not from a place of like, hyper obsession, or hyper fixation, that so many people in the fitness industry have where you feel like there's like compensating for something, right? Like there's something behind there that it's not healthy, where it's like you have a true passion for fitness. But it doesn't define your life. And it's powerful, but you are extremely fit and in great shape. And I know you have quite the layered experience with fitness. So how did you find fitness amongst everything that was going on?
Libby: Yeah. So actually, when I was in the cult, we were what we were allowed, like one hour a day of exercise. And this was part of their beliefs that it was healthy. So they actually were into the whole, like, let's be healthy, let's treat our bodies healthy. And I guess it comes from like the Bible as well, like your body is a temple, you know what I mean? So they were in, there's obviously some good in that. So we were told to eat our vegetables and like we were told to exercise. So apart from like the rest of the day, the one hour that we had to exercise we were kind of allowed to do you know, you could go for a walk or you could, you know, do exercise videos, which is what I chose to do, which was the old the firm, Kathy Smith Total Body, those types of videos where you have like your weights at home and you just follow along. I love the strength training ones, which is interesting, like lifted pretty heavy weights, like I'm lifting like 8, 9, 10 kilos over my head dumbbells at age like 12, 13 and I was like obsessed with it getting stronger. And I think that feeling that I got to that was the one time when I look back at my past and like all the times that I felt fearful and scared and unhappy and all that growing up because there was a lot of those bad emotions, I felt how I wanted to feel during that hour of exercise. And I felt a little bit empowered and a little bit confident. And I felt like I was doing something that I had control over and not control in a bad way. But when every single aspect of your life is taken, your control is taken from you, you reach for that one thing that you can control. And for me that was exercise and that relationship with it from a very young age. And when I came back to Australia, again, having to deal with setting my life up having to deal with not knowing anything at all, being able to join a gym and being like I can do this. I can join a gym, I can get stronger, I can make myself healthier from exercising, being able to do that I started that right away as well. And then I guess also just not having an education. So I didn't even, like we basically stopped homeschool, which if you could even call it that at age like 11, 12. And we had to basically do full time adult work. So cooking, cleaning the house. So not really having anything to fall back on. I just thought of like fitness as my, so I did my certificate three and four in fitness as soon as I started getting some money, and I just paid it off over time, and then joined the gym to be a trainer as soon as I could, once I you know had the certification. So that's kind of the background of it.
Jessica: Wow, that's amazing. And then from there, how did your fitness kind of evolve? Because I know you have a CrossFit background. But did you start with CrossFit or…?
Libby: I started in a regular gym and I met my partner Jamie, at that gym. He was, he was a personal trainer as well. And we just became really good friends. And he was telling me all about this new thing called CrossFit. And it was 2009. So it was right when it was just a baby, CrossFit as well. And then I actually was like, why don't we just go to a CrossFit gym and try out an actual CrossFit class. So that's how it started. And then we started doing the classes as members. And we started doing like little competitions, CrossFit competitions like just local ones. And then we were asked by the owners of the gym to become their head coaches because we were both obviously like both personal trainers, both pretty good at CrossFit. A very you know, we we love the training side of it. So we're always showing up and yeah, so we got that job and I was a Crossfit coach for, I would say, I think it was like, almost eight years.
Jessica: Wow. Yeah. And are there things now? Because I mean, you, you switch up your style of training pretty regularly. It's different now. I've been noticing you guys like hiking now and doing I don't want to say hiking. This is true adventuring. This is this is extreme, but I'm sure you're seeing such so many beautiful places that are pretty much untouched. But how did it influence your fitness? I guess in a positive way, in a negative way.
Libby: So the CrossFit, you mean? Yeah, yeah. So interestingly, I loved it. I didn't love the competing and I started becoming more competitive in a sense that as a skill, I got better at it. So I became more competitive. The competition side of it I never liked. And Jamie always teases me about it, because I used to get like these butterflies in my stomach. And I used to start to feel like sick before a competition. And I just did not like it. I always loved the training though. Like just it, you know, I don't know what it is, I just I'm not. I'm not personally a super competitive person, which is interesting, because of like, being in the fitness industry and all that you always assume people are. But I'm actually not. And I don't like competition. If anyone tries to compete with me, I just shut it off. And I just change what I'm doing. Or I'll just, I'll zig and zag constantly because I'm like, I will not be competed with. So if someone starts trying, I can see it. I'm just like, I'm doing that instead. So but you kind of had to compete. And then as coaches always felt this pressure as well like to be good at CrossFit competitions. And I didn't like that side of it. So that's one thing. When I stopped doing CrossFit, I wasn't actually like, I'm gonna stop doing CrossFit. Like I didn't put a hard line in the sand, I just went to my online business. And I left CrossFit because my business was growing so I became a full time online business and not a Crossfit coach. And the CrossFit was further away, and I was like, Hey, let's just try programming for myself at a normal gym because I programmed for other people anyways. And then I started doing bodybuilding style, I guess you could call it bodybuilding, it probably pretty much was bodybuilding hypertrophy training, as they call it. But I also wanted to, from an aesthetic perspective, I was very much dominant in my upper back, and even my rear delts. So they were super dominant. And I wanted to bring up some other muscles to make myself feel and look more balanced. So I want to bring up my glutes, I wanted to bring up my quads, and I want to bring up my shoulders like my front delts. Because CrossFit is very, it has a lot of vertical pulling a lot of Olympic lifting, and I was just like, jacked, like, massive, like it's cool and all, but from like of my own perspective, I was like, Hey, let's see if I can, you know, change my body. Like, it's kind of fun for me. So that's why I went into that for a few years, which I also really loved. But then I also had, I also found that it kind of brought about certain things that were lacking in other ways. So now I like to do a combination of everything. Like just as an example, last year I was trying to do, I was doing a Cossack squat, which is where you're holding like something and you're going side to side. And I literally was doing, I used to be able to do these beautifully. And then I just felt like I had no balance, I couldn't do it. And this is after like lifting insanely heavy weights for squats and for lunges and for everything that's very much vertical. So it's very much like you're not going, you're not doing any lateral side to side stuff, really with bodybuilding because it's not optimal, as they say. So building muscle. So I felt like I was lacking in agility. I'm also naturally very much a sprinter, I have a lot of speed, I'm very quick. And I felt that slowing down a little bit as well, which is interesting, because we do lose that as we age quicker than we even lose muscle, we lose power and speed as women. So I was like, Okay, I don't really like that now. So I wanted to bring back some of the other type of training last year. So that's when I kind of do a mix now a bit of everything.
Jessica: That's so cool. And I know that you do a lot of different programs, you now offer a lot of different programs for different approaches, I guess you would say, like you have so many to choose from, it's actually crazy, like whatever anyone wants, they get
Libby: stages of life required, I think as well.
Jessica: Yeah, no, absolutely, absolutely. Going back to the power and the empowerment that strength training brought you and then this idea that you know as we age, we often lose certain things that feeling of being mobile being life, there's there's a certain power to being strong as well. But there's also a certain power to being fast to having speed to having stamina, there are, there's complexity to fitness, and fitness can bring such a how do I want to say this, like if you don't focus on it enough, it can slip away quite quickly. And so many people in the health and wellness world right now are so focused on the individual details of every little thing. I mean, we're very aware of the information overload that's going on right now and like you can just get caught up in the minutiae of dieting and you know, perfecting your diet and supplements and all of these these bio hacking tools. But how much of this, I'm just curious about your opinion on, how much of this is a lack of fitness? Like how much is people's health issues a lack of fitness?
Libby: Yeah, a lot might be an unpopular opinion. But I like I live and breathe this with women, like this is where I just don't understand why people still don't accept that beings not. And it's not just the muscle, it's the acute effects that come from exercise because there's, there's obviously long term effects, which basically, is your adaptations. So when you exercise your body creates adaptations, whether it's muscle building, whether it's endurance training, and cardiovascular fitness. There's always adaptations if you're training properly. So that's one thing and everyone loves life. I mean, how many reels have you now seen about like the benefits of muscle and how it's the longevity organ and everyone loves that, right. But then there's also the acute benefits that nobody talks about, like things like insulin sensitivity, blood sugar balancing better, sleep better, energy actually creates energy. When you do certain types of training, like aerobic training and HIIT training, it actually increases our mitochondria. It's insane. And everyone talks about this whole like bio energetic space and bioenergetic. But it's like, these things actually have that effect on the body when used properly. Of course, you know, all the disclaimers there, we don't want to overtrain and everything. But when you're doing it properly in a well fed body, and you know, you're fueling your exercise, you're not doing it from a place of fasting and all that it actually has really positive benefits for our energy, insulin sensitivity, like all about mitochondria. And I'd say that people are missing a really important foundational piece by doing all these other things to improve their health. But they're not doing that one thing that has like a super substantial effect. And I would say it's on par with nutrition, and putting so much focus on nutrition. It's like part of it, right? But the issue is that it's not easy. So it's not like we can just pop a pill, we can just take our liver capsules, and expect that it's doing something because it actually takes that effort and that work. And the other thing it actually takes is building it up slowly. And I see so many people just try and do it so quickly, or they'll go into it full pace. And then they have bad side effects from it because their body's not adjusted and accustomed to it. And then there'll be like, it's not good for me, I've got intolerance or whatever the case may be, but they just need to slowly really gradually build it into their life and then it will become easier just like anything.
Jessica: Yeah, like you can't expect the body to rise up and meet this huge challenge just randomly in these short spurts. It's almost like you need to build a, just like laying a foundation of anything else. It's like going outside in the sun and just burning yourself alive for three hours. Need a little bit of like a base layer, a little a little callus going. So I know you have I guess what, maybe people get a little bit like prickly about the idea that exercise intolerance is not as much of a thing as we think it is. And I actually had well, by the time this interview gets published, the interview will already be out but actually interviewed Jenna Hamm, who she talks about, I think you might follow her as well. She her Instagram handle is @feltsensewpg and she talks about how mobilizing energy, even if you have a lot of trauma, like mobilizing energy is really important that I would say that's one of the acute effects of exercise where you're mobilizing some of this energy that needs to get out of the body. And I think of how many women are in a state of true burnout where they've pushed their bodies too far, maybe they've been really under fed. Maybe they have gone through bouts of over exercise or pushing their body beyond its limits. But then they get this messaging of like they need to stop everything, rest, completely slow down. And they're actually feeling worse now. And now they keep trying to exercise and they feel like they're intolerant to exercise. So what would you say about that? And where should someone start if they do think that their exercise intolerant? What is the steps? What are the beginning steps to that? And how do they reframe that?
Libby: Yeah. So I think exercise intolerance itself is a medical condition but I don't think that everyone who says they have it has that as a medical condition. Like if you do search for it I'm, I do believe I haven't looked it up recently but I do believe there is an actual medical condition. So obviously, I'm not referring to that. But I'm referring to the multitude of people that say they have it now. And it's almost becoming this identity, which is what I find kind of a little bit damaging even. Because it's we were made to, you know, I always tell women like, why do we have legs? And if running is so bad for us, like sprinting? Why do we have arms that can lift things? Like why do we have to do things in life and like, but yeah, we can't do those things because it's weights, right? So I often like bring it back to just our physiological bodies and our natures. You look at animals, they run, they sprint, right. And I'm sure back in the day, as humans, we had to sprint away from things and we had to use our bodies as well. So yeah, it doesn't seem to really make sense in that way. But what I would tell them, so I, I honestly just think it's oftentimes a case of being extremely deconditioned, and extremely out of shape, and unconditioned. And I have a lot of experience working with beginners, because when I was a Crossfit coach, and even before that, as a personal trainer, I would have a complete beginner come to the class. And we would have to guide them through how you're going to have a like how you're going to have longevity and CrossFitters by starting with the foundation. So we would do fundamental classes where we just teach them the very basics. And you know, we put a little finisher in there and they would be on the floor, they would be dizzy, they would feel like they like they get like nauseous and dizzy. And then I would tell them, Yes, this is happening right now. It's hard. But you know, I promise you, if you come back again in three days, and you do another class, and then you come back again in three days, and you do another class, it will get easier. And I literally have like proof of these people coming and getting more conditioned and getting stronger. And they would tell me they feel better, and they look better. And they, you know, their skin clears up. And they there's they're just doing these things that are making them feel better. And they're getting stronger. Like I had women who we teach the lifts like the Olympic lifts, and that we have to start with just a broomstick because they were so like, you know, you want to teach good form. But like one of the girls could barely even lift the broomstick over her head. Like we have such a distinct memory. My partner and I often talk about her. And then by the time when I was leaving CrossFit as a coach, she was snatching 70 kilos. We have so much potential. But there's so much fear mongering now that just strips away at that potential that we have. And I always come from a health first perspective. So it's not healthy to train every single day, you need to have rest days, it's not healthy to overdo it. Of course, these things aren't healthy. But I think now it's almost gone to much the opposite extreme where it's like, oh, I can't really go for a run or now there's like this new fear mongering about perimenopause and menopause. And they can't do cardio. And it's like, that's all ridiculous. Like you can, you can do anything if you work up to it properly. And you have obviously that health first perspective. So you're putting your health first, your recovery first, but you can become adopted, your body is an adaptable machine. That's what it's made to do. So I would just say, you just got to start really, really light. And you got to start with even just like movement, like let's say you want to do a little bit of cardio, just do like a few little seconds of running, and then walk again or like start where you're at, don't try and push yourself to the point of no return. And then the other really interesting piece of advice I had is that I'm a big proponent of frequency. So not intensity frequency, especially for beginners, like say you want to adapt, you want your body to adapt to that feeling of exercise and how you obviously you get out of breath, and you have to use more energy and you have to use more oxygen. If you're doing that frequently, but just short, shorter sessions, you will adapt faster than if you're expecting yourself to once a week, do it and push yourself really hard and then you're dead for the rest of the week. So I'm a really big proponent of frequency as well with exercise in general.
Jessica: Yeah, no, I think that's really important too. Because as you get more comfortable with that, it just becomes easier. It's also carving that space in your schedule. There's so many aspects to it. I do wonder too, if it there's a part of our culture is allergic to discomfort. And exercise, especially when you're just starting out is uncomfortable.
Libby: It's not comfortable at all. And it doesn't mean it's bad, though. That's the thing. Like it's the effort and the discomfort is not the same as like an acute bad pain. It's just something that's natural, like accepting that as important for sure.
Jessica: Do you think that exercise also builds a type of mental tenacity or a mental strength? Because you, you're constantly facing that discomfort and like overcoming it? Do you feel like over time you've gotten stronger and stronger mentally from exercise?
Libby: Yeah, definitely. I think it plays a role in resilience, like massively because the amount of things in life that you have to deal with that aren't comfortable that tend to derail a lot of people. I feel like they don't derail me. And I'm not saying that from like, Oh, I'm such a strong person. But I feel like I have the capacity mentally and physically to know that I can deal with these things as they come up. So you know, like, I know everyone's different though, and people are affected differently but just that that, that strength of knowing like, Hey, I just did that really tough run, or I just did that hard exercise, or I just did whatever it is just having that self trust and that confidence that it brings within you to know that say something does happen that's out of your control in life in another way you feel that self trust, and you rely on yourself and your confidence that you can deal with it. Because you, you have that proof, you're living proof of it from all those times you've had to train and all those times, you've had to do those hard things. So you kind of have that proof, if that makes sense. And I think a lot of it is self trust and knowing that you can deal with something.
Jessica: And yeah, I mean, that builds self trust in multiple ways. Because you also are trusting yourself and following through on what you want, like your goals and what you're after. I mean, there is there is a type of trust and follow through and being able to trust yourself that you're going to do what you say you're going to do. I think there's a lot of information right now out there about strength training, I mean, and just fitness in general, right, there's just an I feel like it kind of goes in cycles, you'll see trends pop up, and then go away and pop up and go away. What are some of the biggest mistakes that women do or partake in when it comes to fitness that you're seeing?
Libby: So I think that there's like two extremes. I feel like one of the extremes is women, so there's like a very much a trend now of like, you know, raise your arms 10 times to snatch your waist, for example, or it's so dumbed down, it's all over TikTok, or, you know, lift these cups in your kitchen, and you can grow your glutes. And it's like, everything's just so dumbed down for women. And it really annoys me because first of all, it's not trusting that women have the intelligence and the capacity to take on these tougher topics and actually learn them. Like do we tell men to bicep curl their friggin coffee cup to build their biceps? No, like, why are we doing this to women? It's super irritating to me. But that's one trend. So what it makes women think, again, is that there is no effort needed. There's nothing involved with building muscle. So that kind of annoys me a little bit. Because it's like, no, you know, it's, you know, it takes it takes a lot of time. First, first of all, it takes consistent time. And then it also takes pushing yourself that little bit more than just what a lot of women think. And I know that they see a lot of it on, you know, on social media now TikTok, Instagram, like, oh, I can just do that easily. And I'll get results, but then they get discouraged because they don't get results. So that's one side of the extreme. But then the opposite side of the extreme is this whole, like optimal training trend, which is super popular right now where it's like everything, the only thing that matters is that you're building muscle, nothing else matters, you have to do these super highly stable exercises, otherwise, you're gonna put too much stress and fatigue on your body, you're not gonna be able to recover and build muscle, everything else is junk training. So then there's that other extreme, which I also don't agree with, because I think as I said, there's more benefits to doing a variety of movements, a variety of exercise, you know, we don't want to be just stuck in one type of thing. Although there is time and place like I did do like a muscle building phase myself, where I was primarily doing that type of training. So it can be useful, but I think it's just these very dogmatic approaches that really grinds my gears.
Jessica: Yeah, yeah, I feel like that applies to everything. Whereas if you don't have complexity or nuance, you're really going to just, you're gonna lose out on the end. And if a woman really is after body composition, because I think a lot of women, they just say like, I want to be smaller, or I want to be, you know, I just want to lose weight. How do you redefine this for women? And I know you do you work with a lot of beginners, and then you also work with a lot of more serious athletes? And do you see that both groups of women are always just like, I want to lose weight, I want to cut, I want to lose fat? Or is what's the pattern there. Cuz I think every woman is after body composition. If we really admitted it to ourselves, like we want to be hot, we want to have an aesthetic look about us. And that might be different for each one of us, some of us want to maybe look a little bit more muscular, some of us want to look a little bit more lean. But at the end of the day, what it requires is for us to have muscle and to also have fitness and be able to maintain a certain body fat percentage.
Libby: Yeah, for sure. I think that what I like to do is actually kind of boil it down to what they really want. Because a lot of times what they're saying is not the exact definition of what they want. Whereas a lot of coaches or online people who like they get angry at women for saying that they want to be toned because they like being toned just means having muscle. And it's like but I understand what you mean when you say you want to be toned but let's you know, describe, like what's a particular feeling you want? What do you like? How do you want to, you know, look, even all those things, I think it's important to get to the bottom of it for women, because if I say so you just want to lose fat, but you know that that you're not going to have like the curves and the muscle that comes with building muscle. So do you want to just be skinny, do you, like so I think that it's important to understand where their mind is at. And I think that from a marketing perspective for me, that's important as well because you cannot help someone if you are not explaining in a language that they understand. And they might use these words that aren't technically right but I get where they're coming from at the end of the day, they want to, usually they want to have like tone, as they call it, which has some form of more muscle on their body than they currently have. But they also do want to be able to see that muscle and see those lines and that definition and that shape a little bit where it's not just like they're feeling really big or bulky. So that's generally the kind of thing I get from women, when they saw me and I don't think that it's wrong. And I think that it's been overly like, like you were saying before about how sometimes you almost feel like influencers or people are coming out from their own biases. And it's almost like, they're projecting what they've like, what their experiences were in the past to other women. But I think this whole like not allowing women to say that they want to look better, and not allowing them to say that they want to look hot, and they want to have a particular body shape, in a way it almost dehumanizes women, because we're basically telling them, they're not allowed to have certain desires or feelings like wanting to improve their appearance, or, you know, lose fat or feel attractive. And I feel like it does have this dehumanizing effect, which I guess in a broad sense involves denying someone that full complexity, depth and range of human emotions and experiences. And we are human. Of course, we want to look good, of course, we want to feel good. Like, of course, we want our husband like, I know, for me when my partner thinks I'm sexy and hot, and I can just see it in his eyes that he wants me it's like, that fucking makes me feel good, right? I mean, like, why do we like, I'm a woman, I want to feel womanly, I want to feel wanted. And I don't like that it's gone so far this other way, where even it even annoys people on my Instagram. Like, that's what I'll get a lot of hate comments, but you know, like, people will unfollow me, or they'll tell me that I'm following me because I'm making it too much about building your glutes, or whatever the case may be. But it's like, well, everyone else wants it. We all know they want it because I talked to women on calls. And they are sometimes in tears telling me that they do not like the way they look. And they feel horrible about their body. And what we're just going to invalidate that, why like horrible to do that to someone, they're human, they have these feelings, they have these emotions. So what I actually like to do with them is, and I do it with myself as well is bring it back to their values and their core desired feelings. And a lot of times they'll say, I love my pre baby body, and I want that body back or I want to be like, I want to look like I looked 10 years ago, because I love that right. And granted, they probably felt they didn't always feel the best, maybe they weren't healthy or whatever. But can we get to the core desired feelings that they had when they looked like that, that they want to recreate those feelings, maybe they felt sexy, maybe they felt confident, there is nothing wrong with like. If they actually had feelings when they were a certain size, it's not about the size, it's about the way it made them feel. And it always comes back to how it makes you feel like, so I try and help guide them with what let's pick some core desired feelings, let's pick some values that you want. And then we can work towards those in a healthy way with our daily behaviors and our daily actions to get you the result that you want. But we don't, we're never going to get there by pretending like it doesn't exist by pretending like women don't want to look good. And they don't want to feel good. And we can do it in a healthy way as well.
Jessica: Right? I think there's a lot of women who maybe did get to that place in an unhealthy way. And it's almost like they're afraid that's going to happen again. So it's keeping them from trying. And it's important for anyone listening that feels that way is you can't go back to what you didn't know, like, now you know what, you know, you're not going to make those same mistakes moving forward. And sometimes we do have to just try again, and do it a different way. But it does require change. And I think so many women feel almost ashamed for admitting that they want to look better. And it's okay to say, I want to look different, I want to look better. That doesn't mean I don't love myself, it doesn't mean that I don't you know, I'm not content with myself or anything like that. But it's okay to want to change while still bringing back that really powerful self compassion that you brought up at the beginning of this conversation where you'd have compassion for yourself. And still, in that compassion want to change?
Libby: Yeah, 100% and even just curiosity. I think curiosity is a big one on neutrality. So so much of, so we have such a hard time being neutral with ourselves. So it's either this extreme shame or it's like, let's just be horrible to ourselves, under eating and overtraining, like, why can't we just look at it from a neutral standpoint, like if you were your if it was your daughter, right? I validate her when she tells me she doesn't like something about her body or she doesn't, I'm not going to be this one of these people are like, you're beautiful, just the way you are like, of course I think that but it doesn't help anything to just constantly have someone invalidate you as well. So I feel like we should validate ourselves, validate your feelings, get to the bottom of what you actually want, how do you want to feel because it might not even have to do with your body that much. There could be other ways as well that you can bring those feelings back into your life as well.
Jessica: That's a great point. And I guess that brings us to motivation because I think a lot of people feel like right now there's a lot of messaging of I should be in complete alignment. And I think alignment is important. But when you break down alignment, and daily action, not every day in every moment, are you going to feel completely aligned or motivated to do each individual step that's gonna get you to where you want to go? So I guess, how do I want to phrase this question is, is it important to love the type of exercise that you do? And when you don't feel motivated? How do you find motivation? To exercise?
Libby: Yeah, I think it is important from a big picture perspective to love the exercise you do, as in like, we don't want to be hating exercise constantly, right. But I think that there is definitely like, we, we should not expect to have this perfectly motivated feeling on this perfect feeling. And like, even just perfectly recovered, and like, whatever our arbitrary definition of that is, like everyone thinks they know what it feels like to be perfectly covered. But we actually don't, because the true definition of recovered from a muscular standpoint is if you are able to progressive overload. So if you are not able to progressive overload, you can't get stronger than that means there's a recovery issue. But if you can get stronger, even if you felt like shit that day, but you went and had an awesome session, your brain might not have really been telling you the truth, right. And the thing of the thing that I always come back to is that our brain wants us to feel safe, it doesn't want us to feel confident, it doesn't want us to feel happy, it doesn't even want us to feel healthy. It just wants us to feel safe. So we can't always trust it. And I know this from my past and my upbringing and being in survival mode so much is that some of the things that we don't want to do are actually going to be good for our health, and they're actually going to be good for even the way they make us feel. And they're gonna make us feel happier. But it's our brain telling us sometimes that it's not safe, because for whatever reason, it's decided that it's a threat, maybe it's hard, or whatever the case may be. So I think coming at it from that perspective, not always expecting to feel physically a certain way, before we exercise is good, although there is there is nuance there, like you don't, you know, I listen to my body as well. But I think that that's one important side of it. And then the other side is that, I think we can also train and exercise and do things from a broad range of emotions. I mean, if you've ever had like an angry training session, I don't know if anyone who's listening has but it can be very therapeutic. Use different emotions to motivate us, it doesn't just have to be the, you know, I feel like I'm on top of the world. So I'm gonna go chain type of things. So that's another thing that I tend to use. And then the thing that helps me personally is that I have like, I call it structured flexibility. So within my structure, my basic structure, I allow myself flexibility. And this actually gives me autonomy, which is a huge core value of mine. And I feel like I'm deciding for myself. So I'm not stuck in this extreme routine where I have to do this particular session, and I have to increase the weights otherwise, it's pointless. So I give myself flexibility. And what that could look like for me is, maybe I'm going to decide that I'm not going to do my weight training session, but I'm gonna swap it for my run today. And I'm still doing the things that are guiding me towards my values. And I'm still being healthy and making the right decisions. But I'm allowing myself the flexibility or I have two gym memberships, which might be a bit strange to some people, but I guess because I'm a trainer and stuff, it's not as strange. And I can be like, Man, which one do you want to go to today? There's just these little flexible things that really make me feel good. I don't know why it always brings a little bit of luxury to my life. Does that make sense?
Jessica: Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, I have, I sometimes have two gym memberships as well. And sometimes I'll actually go try a new gym, you know, just pay for a day pass. Because it's just, it's new, it brings a little bit of a different layer of like a complexity of like, I'm gonna go play around in this new environment today.
Libby: Yeah so that really helps me with motivation. Or sometimes if I wake up and I'm feeling because I'll I have like two different skeleton calendar skeletons. And one is when I train in the morning, and ones in the afternoon, and I realized this isn't realistic for everyone. But I base it sometimes on how I'm feeling that day. So if I wake up, because I'm very much a creative person, and sometimes I just get like, bombarded with creative thoughts or like, like, I need to do this now. Then I'll be like, I'll train in the afternoon, I can book that, I can use that calendar. And there's a space for that. If I'm really like, like you said before, if I feel like I need to release energy, like maybe I'm struggling with something mentally or whatever, I find it really helps my day by getting that training done in the morning. And then I feel really good the rest of the day. So there's that flexibility in my schedule as well. And these things motivate me for sure. But yeah, I think you know, using other emotions sometimes for motivation is good. And for me that I call it structured flexibility.
Jessica: No, I love that. That's such a great tip. Because really what you're doing is you're reframing. I think a lot of people look at exercise as like thing to check off the list or this type of drudgery like Okay, I just carve out this hour a day and I'm just gonna get it done. And what you're doing is it's like you reframe exercise as a tool for true illness, and you use it as a tool, how it how it's supposed to be used, and give yourself that flexibility. That's amazing. And so for people that are complete beginners, I hear that excuse a lot of like, I don't know, if I can ever have time to exercise or I'm just looking for something easy. I think every time you talk to people nowadays, it's like, I need something to be easy. I need it to fit into my schedule easily. And how do you help people find the time and get into a consistent routine? Because I feel like that's the hardest part is if you've never had that discipline before, is that getting in that routine is difficult?
Libby: Yeah, I think that oftentimes, when someone tells me they don't have time, I asked them further questions, because oftentimes, it's not that they actually don't have time. Or they might, it might look like they don't have time. But it's usually other reasons or other motives. And one of those things might be a fear of starting, or, if you're completely honest with yourself, do you actually not have any time, like, that's what I would start with, because like, we do make time, I know, it's so generic sounding, and so cliche, but we do make time for the things that are important, right? Like, if you have it scheduled into your calendar as an actual appointment, you need to go to the dentist, or you need to go to the eye doctor like that important or even just like eating lunch that's scheduled in somehow for probably it's not for everyone, but it shouldn't be right. Like, that's how I would look at exercise, it's literally that important to me, like it's it's a, you're doing something very much for yourself care, right. So that's one aspect of it is just kind of just make sure you're, you're saying that you don't have time, because you actually don't have time, like you physically do not have an ounce of time. And if that is the case, oftentimes I tell women that I work with that, we need to make it a thing. So you need to involve your partner, you need to involve your family, like when I decide I'm going to make something a thing, they call it, they know I go psycho about it, I put it on the fridge. And I'm like, Guys, this is what this is the time that I'm doing this, I need you guys to keep me accountable, Ash and Jamie and helped me with this, I really want to do this. And it's a it's a full family affair I and I tell them to do it as well. Like we all do that. So it becomes a thing that everyone's involved in. So if if Mum needs to train, then Mom needs to train and we need to support her in that, right. So you need to make it a thing, rather than thinking that it's this quiet thing that you're going to do so that your husband doesn't have to take time with the kids extra out of his day. And it's just like this. If I can make it I can make it so yeah, like respected or I guess make it a thing. That's a, that's a great way from like a practical strategy suggestion. And then in terms of how to actually start, yeah, definitely start with, I like starting with very so say you're completely out of shape, like you have not done any training than walking is always excellent. And I think it's super underrated, like build up that build build your walk up, like that's gonna build aerobic capacity when you if you don't have any really yeah, and you're not walking that much. It really does build aerobic capacity, think about you know, is there some routes with little hills that you can go on to sort of like push that little bit of cardiovascular fitness, because we want to have that base aerobicly to be able to do the harder things like the weight training and all that as well. And then with weights, and that I would honestly just start you can start at home with like dumbbells, but you want to have something that will create an adaptation. So you want to see results, right? So if it's too light, or if it's too easy, it's not really going to create the muscle building results that you want. So you can start at home if you're a complete beginner. Otherwise, I often just recommend I'm like, why don't you just try joining a gym? Like because a lot of times there's just a fear there. And there's, it's because they've never done it like, of course, it's scary.
Jessica: I mean, I get scared when I see a new machine still. I'm like, How do I use that.
Libby: And you're like sitting on there trying to like kind of figure it all out, people are watching you and you're sitting the wrong way or something like I totally get that. Sometimes what you can do is go to the cardio equipment area, and like do like a treadmill or whatever, and just look at the machines and sort of scan the gym and see how people are using them. Like, you know, simple practical ways to get started is important. But then there's also the mindset side of it, which is huge. And this is something after I did my Easter sale where I was selling programs where it got to the point where I would have someone message me and they're like, can you make this 30 minute session? 20 minutes for me? And can I only do it two days instead of three days. And then I was kind of like, this is the program like this is my expertise. I'm not I'm not just putting junk out there. Like it's literally my thought out expertise and you're asking me to change it, you know, do you go to your accountant and say, Oh, I don't want to follow your advice because ABC so it's like, you know, commit to something like do it properly and then you know, build up slowly and you know, then you can decide if it's not working for you. But they often say you know, they have all these demands. I need it to literally be 15 minutes, I can only do two times a week and I only have three different dumbbells and there's nothing else and I will not buy anything else. And so it's like, I get it. But then also they'll spend a lot of money on supplements sometimes. So I think there’s priorities as well and, and then also remembering that it's something that will take time and patience. And it's it happens slowly, like building muscle, getting fitter. It's a slow process. And it requires, as I said frequency and slowly increasing the intensity slowly building up. So, yeah, but yeah, I get that it's daunting. Definitely, yeah.
Jessica: Oh yeah, I feel like even if you're a seasoned gym goer, there are parts of it that you still get, you're just like, Oh, I'm so stupid, or like, I just did something that was really dumb. just is what it is. And no one really is paying attention to you. Like, no one's really watching you. It can feel that way. But no one really is.
Libby: Yeah, I have one more tip actually, which I personally use, if I'm feeling not motivated. And I know it's not like I'm sick or something. I'm just like, I cannot be bothered going to the gym or training. I play games with myself. And one of those games is I tell myself, just drive to the gym or walk to the gym and just do the warm up, right? If you're doing the warmup and you're feeling like absolutely exhausted and you just can't do it, then you're allowed to say no, I don't want to train. But if you just go to the gym anyways, do your warm up, put some good tunes on, see how you feel. Usually I get motivated. It's crazy thing about it. So I just again, it comes back to that giving myself that flexibility or that autonomy, that ability to make that choice, but still having that little bit of structure. So it's like, go there, just try it out, see how you feel. And then you can decide, and I probably only once ever turned around and gone home. Yeah, because we made all that effort, right. But I remember I was just having such a like, I was not in the headspace or anything. So I went home one time. But other than that, it's always worked pretty well for me like to do that. So you're giving yourself that permission. So you're not, you're validating your feelings. You're not saying, You're such an idiot, you're never motivated, get your ass to the gym right now. But instead, you're validating how you're feeling. And I feel like my brain likes that.
Jessica: Yeah, mine does, too. And I do the same thing, I've done the same thing for years, just go and walk on the treadmill for like five minutes. And if you really don't want to be here, you can leave. And I don't think I've like you said like I've maybe left the gym once or twice, because it's like, once you get there and you've carved that into your routine, you actually want to be there and you're like, I want to get this done. So and it also gets you into that habit of carving it into your routine, because I feel like that might be the hardest part of beginning, at least from my perspective is just getting that habit of making it a part. Because once it becomes a part of your life, it's just, it's easy. It's a part of your life. So but yeah,
Libby: You're saying carving it into your routine. I think that's so important in life, I even told women, even if they can only drive to the gym, do one thing and drive home that that's really important for they're also just for the facts, like we talked about before keeping those promises to yourself as best as you can build self trust.
Jessica: Yeah, absolutely. No, and you can and don't like beat yourself up about not doing more just celebrate it and be like, Wow, you did so good getting there today. And then do it again the next day. Like it's just it's building. So I mean, we've covered so much today, but I'm sure there are women listening to this saying, Okay, I'm either a beginner or I exercise very casually. And I've never followed a program. What are some benefits for both beginners and even people that maybe have exercised casually or train regularly but don't follow a program? What is the benefit to following a program that I mean, of course, has been programmed by someone like you who, this is your bread and butter. But what are the benefits to a program?
Libby: I think the main benefit is that you know that there's going to be the progress there in terms of the adaptations. So oftentimes, when you're just doing random stuff, sure, you might have adaptations, but you have no proof of those adaptations, because then you're just going and doing something else. So let's say you're repeating the same program, and it's always squats every Monday, and you know that you're slowly getting stronger, and you're slowly maybe adding another rep or whatever the case may be. That is your information that what you're doing is working and that what you're doing is getting you results if you don't have that you don't actually have any information. So it's not bad, because as we said, there's also those acute effects of exercise. And that's any exercise, like there's so many acute benefits as well. But we want both, right? We want to have, because obviously that muscle, and those adaptations are very important. And they're precious, like we want to have as much as we can as we age, particularly for women as well, like, you know, going into the 40s and 50s where there's that really really big risk of osteoporosis and brittle bones like it's a huge risk. And like a lot of, I've actually read some research recently that the majority of people in their older years lose quality of life from the after effects of a fall. It's not from the lack of muscle itself it's that the muscle creates them this instability and they fall and they hurt themselves and they can't ever recover back from that so it's that's what actually sacrifices their quality of life and it's a huge percentage I can't remember was like 80% or something. I have to double check it. But yeah, so in that, we want the muscle for sure, we want to have the strength and the muscle. In order to know that it's happening, we need to have some form of progressive overload and also mechanical tension. So mechanical tension is what causes the muscle adaptations to happen, because it sends a signal to our muscles that there's work that needs to be done, and there's going to be future work. So we need to adapt accordingly. Because there's only this level of strength. And this person is continuing to do these things that will require more strength. So therefore, we need to adapt and build more muscles so that they can handle what's coming. So that's basically what the concept of progressive overload is. And mechanical tension is how we get that. So that's by lifting heavy enough weights for us that we're going to send that message and that adaptation to our body. So in order to do that, you'll want to be following a program and seeing that you're increasing on those lifts. And if it's something like cardiovascular fitness, it's a good idea as well to have that, you know, okay, so how fast did I sprint? How long did it take for my heart rate to come back down? Is that improving? And then we know we have this feedback from our bodies that we are improving, and we're building the muscle. So yeah, I think that that's the main reason why I would say it's important to follow a program.
Jessica: That's amazing and helpful, because I think there are so many people that just maybe go and lift the same weights over and over and over again, not realizing that if that muscle is growing, you should be able to lift a little heavier and a little heavier, or add some challenge to that exercise over time. Yeah.
Libby: And it doesn't have to be as extreme as people say it does as well, because there's that side of it to where it's like, if you're not lifting every time you go to the gym, if you're not increasing weight, then something's wrong. But it's like, I think it's like a macro view. If you look over the months, have you gotten stronger over the months, that's what matters, because some days we're on, we're not going to be up to it, you know, depends on our, even our cycle does affect it. Right? That's our I think it more affects our, what we think we can do. Yeah, what we can do, that's what the research shows at least, right?
Jessica: Yeah, cuz I know, like, I have some days where it's like, I just don't really feel like pushing it. But I'm just gonna live the same, you know, same weight that I did last time, it's not a big deal. Like I could handle it. But it's just a way to, like get moving. So there's, there's that there. It's like, not like, oh, my gosh, I'm never gonna get stronger. It's like overtime, I will definitely get stronger. So I know that you talk a lot about recovery. And this might be my last question. But I think a lot of people get so hyper focused on the exercise aspect of it. And they forget that where yes, the work is done in the gym, but the muscle is actually built during the recovery. The results actually come during the recovery. So what are certain things that you focus on for really strong recovery, and just better results over time?
Libby: Yeah, obviously, sleep is a huge one, I think if you have any way to, you know, just increase that deep sleep, particularly because the deep sleep is where the actual adaptations happen with the muscle growth. So that's really important. If you're someone who doesn't get much deep sleep, you know, doing all the things that you can to help improve your sleep is really important. I also like movement. So movement is actually really helpful because when you're moving enough, even including things like cardio and zone to cardio, you're sending a lot of blood flow to those areas. And oftentimes, we don't have enough blood flow when we've worked on muscle, and then it's just kind of your, let's say, you just sit down for the rest of the day you sit down for the two days after, you're not actually facilitating the blood flow to help with the recovery. And that's a huge aspect of the recovery. Obviously, food, like when you start getting more into building muscle, you kind of want to make sure that you can time your carbs a little bit more around your training session, because that's when especially after your training session, they say your muscles are more like sponges, which is true for that glucose. And that's a really important time to get those carbs in because it also helps bring the stress levels down. So carbs are actually anti stress after you train. So when you train, you're in a high cortisol, like, it's the way it is, it's supposed to be like that you're in that sympathetic state. But if you can get into that what I call recovery state or that parasympathetic state as quickly as possible, you will just recover faster, so will boost that recovery. So you don't want to stay in that sympathetic state for too long after. So carbs really do facilitate that. And they help to bring the stress down. After you train, they obviously replenish glycogen as well, which is part of it. And then enough protein is super important as well. You know, I'm not super intense on the timing, like you don't have to be like smashing a protein shake 30 minutes after it's more of those, it's more bookmarking the before and after workout meals to make sure that they have enough carbs, enough protein. And then yeah, I think that things are important as well, just like your lifestyle, making sure that you're not too stressed about other things, because that will pull from the bucket of recovery from your training. So you can think about how we have limited amount of I guess recoverability if that makes sense. So if we want to put it towards building muscle and recovering, then we have to make sure that we're balancing out the bucket and we're not taking it for all these other things in our life as well. So Oh, yeah, those would be the main things.
Jessica: That's amazing. So there's probably women listening thinking, Okay, this is something that I'm super interested in. And I know that you cover a lot of this in your programs. Can you just break down some of your offerings? And what where women can get involved or get started with you?
Libby: Yeah, sure. So I have a membership, which is 47 USD a month. And that is my like, that's a really good starting point, because that's where I offer programs, and they can kind of dip their toes into it. So there's even like a two day a week training program, 30 minutes training program. So there's like lots of levels of different programs to choose from. And there's actually a lot of support, which I don't think people realize, like we have, I have such a great team of coaches. And we answer emails, like in depth, we're in the Facebook group where people ask questions, so there's a lot of support as well. So it's something that you could kind of try out, if you were thinking about it, it'd be a great place to start. I also offer like every month new recipes and action kits, and I sort of give different strategies for different people's needs. Like for example, if someone wants to lose fat, I've got different strategies of fat loss, I guess approaches they could choose if someone wants to build muscle, I have action kits on that. So there's lots of different information and a lot of the nuances that I can't give on my Instagram or because there's just not enough room, I put it in my membership, which is cool. And then I also have a one on one program, which is where we basically just personalize everything. So I work, I have two coaches that work with me, and we personalized, you know, everything across the board to make it super in depth for you and what you need. And that's like a lot more hands on that one. So there's that one's 400 US a month. So there's my two offers.
Jessica: Awesome. Now, I mean, I have done a few different ones of your programs, and I just, I love them all. They're all super well designed and challenging, but not what you would consider, you know, it's like you think of like, oh, this is gonna kill me. And that's not Libby's training at all, all of this training is really to the point. And I love that you focus on tempo as well, because it almost really trains you to be very mindful and the pace in which you lift, and it's just, it's amazing, truly, your programs are really life changing. Thank you.
Libby: Of course, of course.
Jessica: Well, thank you for just coming to share, I could talk to you for hours. But I feel like you have just educated us so much about just the complexity and the nuance to to exercise and training, which is really important, and not going so far beyond just the physical benefits of exercise you you really are a testament to it. And it's just been so incredible to talk to you.
Libby: Thank you so much for having me.
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